Ep. 361 Reading Black Writers Gave Me Heritage with Tembe Denton-Hurst

Written By Megan Caballero

This week, we’re joined by Tembe Denton-Hurst, staff writer at New York Magazine’s The Strategist and author of the novel Homebodies. Tembe shares why she thinks it is important to read in community with others, how seeing herself on the page changed her life, and the popular book she can’t stand.

The Stacks Book Club pick for March is They Were Her Property by Stephanie E. Jones-Rogers. We will discuss the book on March 26th with Tembe Denton-Hurst returning as our guest.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 0:00

I think for me, what was beautiful about getting my master's and being an undergrad grad was the conversations like, I loved Matt, I love my master's program or and just like Advanced Study in English, like so much more than I loved my intro classes, because it was just like, we're all on the same page. We're having these deep conversations. And I think great conversations come out of people who are working from the same shared text. There is so much to be said for really sitting with things that are complicated or sitting with things that are deep or hard or complex within the company of other people.

Traci Thomas 0:36

Welcome to the stacks a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today, I am so excited to welcome Tembe Denton-Hurst to the show. Tembe is an author and journalist whose work explores beauty, culture and storytelling. She's a staff writer at New York Magazine's the strategist and the author of the novel home bodies, a sharp and heartfelt story about ambition, identity and carving out a space for yourself. She also writes one of my absolute favorite sub stacks, extra curricular where she shares her thoughts on books, culture and everything else that you've ever wanted someone to talk about today, temi and I talk about her relationship to books, her incredible sub stack, and why we chose to read they were her property for book club this month. In case you missed the announcement, our book club pick for March is they were her property white women as slave owners in the American South, by Stephanie e Jones, Rogers, Tempe will be back on Wednesday, March 26 to discuss the book with me, so be sure to read along and then tune in. Quick reminder, everything we talked about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. And listen. If you love the stacks and you want inside access to it, I have two awesome ways for you to support the work of the show and get yourself some perks, like bonus episodes, extra hot takes from me, reading rankings, Discord channel and the like. You can either join the stacks pack on Patreon by going to patreon.com/the stacks to be part of this incredible reading community, or you can get even more of me by going to Traci thomas.substack.com, the choice is yours, or do both, and now I have to give my final shout out for our newest members of the stacks pack, a perk that we've had for years and years and years that has finally gone. These are our final members who joined the stacks of who will have their names read aloud. So here we go. Thank you to Michelle La Forge, Aaron Taylor, Amanda Jayna, Watson Cole a Charisse, Dogan Meg DeCarlo, Marcella, kiss Meese, Andrea F Madeline, Sarah a Jennifer Lynn, Ainsley, McKee, Stephanie, Henry King, Rachel M Denny Harbaugh, Hannah Oliver, Depp, Angela strathman and a mixee. Thank you all so much for joining the stacks pack and thank you to everyone for supporting the show. Okay, now it's my time for my conversation with temby Denton. Hearst you All right, everybody. I'm so excited. I always say I'm excited. But today I'm really excited. I'm joined today by, don't tell anybody else, my favorite person on sub stack, author, journalist, all around just like smart, wonderful human Tembe Denton-Hurst, whose latest book, her debut book, came out in 2022 2023 three. It's called home bodies. It's a novel which we're going to talk about. But before we get to that, tambi, welcome to the stacks. Hi. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy you're here. I'm just like, such a fan, like, real, like, I really reached out, like, with big fangirl energy. And you are not scared of that, so I'm honored to have you. Yeah,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 3:42

no, I'm a big proponent of being a fan of people. Like I am the biggest fan girl. When I love something, I'm like, don't be afraid to tell people that you love their stuff. Like people need to hear that. I always need

Traci Thomas 3:52

to hear it. That's right. I'm like, anytime someone tells me they like anything I do, I'm like, me. Oh, my same. Oh, man, thank you so much. Okay, before we get into like, your professional life, will you tell us just a little bit about like, who you are, where you come from, and maybe just like, a little sample of your relationship to books?

Tembe Denton-Hurst 4:13

Yeah, for sure. So my name is temby. I am from two places. I'm both from Brooklyn and also from the DMV area. And I say that because I was born in New York, raised in New York, but then my dad lives in DC, and so it was like a lot of back and forth, weekends, long weekend summer spend DC, like going to, you know, the free DC, free public camps, you know, over the summers and things like that. And then I moved to DC when I was 13, and so I did high school there, and so I really feel like I have this kind of double, like citizenship of both places. Can you pick a favorite? No, I think my favorite is DC. And the reason why I say that is because DC is just extremely black, and New York is very black too, but black in a different way. And also I think. Think because of the gentrification of Brooklyn, I have a harder time, and DC has been very is gentrified as well. And like has its own thing, but there's I just, I think I have a harder time with New York, and also, because I was born here, raised here, I feel like it just feels like home, you know? I mean, like I have feel very neutral. I feel very neutral to New York in a way that I felt interesting, more attack like DC felt different to me than like, going there, yeah. So I think that I always have this kind of affection for DC that I don't know. I'm very territorial and protective of being a New Yorker. I just at the same time, I think, because I am from here, I just feel kind of like, oh, I mean, it's whatever, you know, yeah, do you live in Brooklyn now I'm in Queens. You're in Queens. And I love queens, Queens. I love queens. I'm a big Queens girl now, now I'm like, you know, because Brooklyn is cool, but like, I don't know it's changed. I also

Traci Thomas 5:53

feel like, when you're from Brooklyn, you can say that, like, so like, Brooklyn's cool, whatever. Like, so chill. Whereas, like, if you weren't from Brooklyn, you wouldn't be as, like, chill about it. Like, like, if you had moved there, you'd be like, Brooklyn so cool. But like, you've been there, done that, like, I'm from Oakland, and I love Oakland, but whenever people like, oh my god, the Bay Area, I'm like, yeah, like, Oakland's cool. Like, chill about it, in a way that, like, if I was visiting, like, oh my god, Oakland's amazing.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 6:21

No, yeah, exactly. I feel like it's very similar, I think. And also, everybody I know who's like, from Brooklyn is like, trying to leave low key, or they just are there and they're like, oh, you know, like, it's not the same. Like, I think that people who are from New York kind of all have the same we all talk about it in a similar fit, in a similar way, yeah, unless we're talking to people from the Bronx, in which case it's Brooklyn forever. Like, forever,

Traci Thomas 6:43

like it's on site. Okay, we're not saying anything bad about Brooklyn to those guys.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 6:48

Oh, absolutely not. Yeah, no. Like, then I'm big. I'm Brooklyn's biggest fan. I'm like, I never go to the Bronx. What are you talking about? Like, my relationship to books, I really owe that to my parents like I was the kid at Barnes and Noble at the library. I still probably owe Southampton's library so much money because they would just let me take out so many books at a time. And I always did that like I was the kid who was like, I'm gonna take out 30 books every two weeks, type of situation. Yeah, and I just loved Barnes and Noble. My first book that I read is, and we can bleep this out. We don't have to. But, you know, like, we can't Christian put a bleep sound in there. I read really, really early, like, I think they probably would call me, like, hyper lexic at this, you know what I mean, if we wouldn't be looking at it at this point, like, I was reading at like, almost, like a 12th grade reading level when I was in the second grade. So I was like, gosh, was school boring for you? It was extremely boring, yeah, yeah. It was, yeah. All the

Traci Thomas 7:52

other kids were like, cha, cha, C, H, and you're like, super Cal, fragileistic,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 7:59

pretty. It pretty it was, yeah, so it was, like, the school was pretty boring for me on that level. And so I spent a lot of time, like writing, even when I was a kid. And I went to this kind of, almost like extreme Montessori elementary school. So my mom, like, packed us up when we were eight and moved us out to the Hamptons. And so I did, like middle part of middle, I mean, elementary school in South Hampton, and, like, Bridge Hampton and I went to the school called hay ground, which was just like in a just like felt like, very much like a rich people experiment, you know, like it was Montessori, to an extreme level in the way that, like we were, obviously, we're calling our teachers all by their first names. But then beyond that, it's like there were no real there was no real structure, like we had math, but we had no homework, and we had, like, every day you just it was all self guided. Did the experiment work? I think it worked for someone like me. I don't work for you. I feel it doesn't work for everyone. I ended up going to a high school that kind of built upon that in a way, with, like, more rigor. So it's like, I've kind of been in that education system for that kind of educate that, like, kind of approach to education, which is, like, high school was a little more formalized, but still very like, almost like a liberal arts education, like, from when I was and there was, like, some patchy years in there, like, I went to public school, like for seventh grade. I went to public school for eighth grade. And there was, you know, like, it's, it's been all over the place, we've moved around. But all of the things all that to say I was reading from like, a very, very young age, and like, reading and consuming media that, like, was very outside of, like, my my comprehension level, even though I could read and I could see what was happening, like, my understanding of the work was not really sophisticated yet. You know, it wasn't like, age appropriate, absolutely not like, I was probably 11 years old when I read push by Sapphire, you know. And like the color I was reading, like, The Color Purple, sure, I was in I was like, in seventh grade when I read Pride and Prejudice, you know? And I was like, yeah, there were these very and I didn't like, I've since reread all of those things and been like, Oh, wow. Okay. Okay? Because, you know, at the time, I was just really, like, I was in in the deep in deep water, yeah,

Traci Thomas 10:06

you are just like, Look at me. I can read this, but you weren't really grasping what was going on. And then you, like, went back and were like, oh, okay,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 10:14

yeah. Like, I mean, like, I understood it in more, like, basic ways, like I could understand, like, I didn't understand the color purple as this, like, very sophisticated story about queerness and liberation. When I was 10, I was just kind of like, oh my god, Suge is licking silly nipple. What the fuck is going on? Yeah, what's happening? But you didn't get the like themes or like concepts exactly. I hadn't lived life yet, so I just didn't know what was going on. Well,

Traci Thomas 10:43

I read it in high school, and I was just like, Oh, are they lesbians? Do you know what I mean? Like, I like. So I think it takes a while to, like, understand, like, it does take life to understand a lot of these adult books that, like, they make you that they make you read when you're young. It's like, well, I don't know, like, they're hooking up. That's what I got. But it's

Tembe Denton-Hurst 11:01

interesting, because I do think when I did get to high school, I had, like, a very I did have a more sophisticated approach, because I was like, too reading it for years, yeah, like my I was in a book club with my English high school teachers, and they would like, ask me, like, So tell me, what books do you think should be in the in the curriculum? Because I read, like, one of the books that they had us all read was nervous conditions by cc dungarimba, which I loved. It's, she's an incredible writer, but it was like, I was the only one who understood it, like I was like, and I was in class, like, this was probably 10th grade, and I was just like, you know, I really think that there's these clear themes around eating disorders, and we should really be and everyone's looking around like I would be in class, talking to myself a lot.

Traci Thomas 11:47

I definitely had a different high school experience than you. I was not an early reader, let me put it that way. So I was coming to the work slow.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 11:58

I mean, that's totally fair. I feel like we all like, I mean, like we all ended up in the same relative place, you know, I just we're talking

Traci Thomas 12:05

now so Exactly. But you would be like, I would raise my hand in class, and you'd probably be like, this dumb bitch does not was happening.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 12:12

I feel like, for me, I just felt like, almost more of like, a intellectual loneliness, because I was like, I want to talk about these things and like, I want to get really deep in what I'm seeing and like, because I think fiction is so important in helping us understand the world, and like, helping us to kind of articulate things that we didn't yet know prior to, like, I think it's James Baldwin who was like, you think that you are by yourself, and then you read, you know, like, that's a very bad, you know, summary of what he said. It was very it was more eloquent than that, but he liked it was to that effect. And I think that that's so true. I really do think that I like every time I've seen myself on the page, I think I've been kind of bowled over by the fact that that's possible. Like, yeah, it's just, like, really, it creates this, like, this really great connective tissue. And also reading black writers for me gave me heritage in a way that I thought was really important, like, in ways that I find really important. Still. It's like, knowing that you have lineage both fictive and real, is so important, yes, and so like, I still remember being in college and reading, Here Comes the Sun by Nicole Dennis Benn, and just being like, bowled over because I'm Jamaican and so well, Jamaican am black. My dad is black. My mom is Jamaican, but doesn't it here nor there? But like seeing black queer Jamaican people, like a black lesbian Jamaican woman, was, like, very different, because homosexuality was not something that we were like, they were not like, oh yeah, that's great. Like, we love you, right? Yeah, books have changed my life in so many ways. Do you

Traci Thomas 13:48

remember the first time you saw yourself on the page where you were like, Oh, hello? I

Tembe Denton-Hurst 13:54

think it's hard to say. My first instinct, even though I know that it's probably not true, is their eyes are watching God by Zorana Hurston, I read that book when I was in 11th grade that, like, blew my whole world open. I was just like, oh, like, this is different. I think what I loved about what Zora did and was doing was just like writing about this wild woman who is, like, finding herself. And I think I really identified with that in 11th grade, because I was finding myself and just, I don't know, I think I was just kind of, like resisting a lot of the ways that, like, black women are viewed, you know, like I was black, I'm fat, I'm all of the things in this, like, very white environment and in which there is no, like, real language around my experience, and not that The not that Their Eyes Were Watching God was like mapping on that one to one. But it was just like, this is a woman who is like, navigating all of these places and spaces in a way that's like fairly fearless, and not without its own heartbreak and not without her own emotions. And she doesn't like escape the ups and downs of life, but she like survived. Is, in a way, yeah, and I don't know, I thought that there was something really beautiful about that. And so, yeah, Jamie is an important she's an important character to me. I

Traci Thomas 15:09

love that. I want to ask you about a project or a thing that you wrote on substack that sort of, is how this got kicked off, is you wrote a piece in January, on Inauguration Day, called a book list for precedented times. And you talked, and I'm gonna have you talk about it more, but you shared a bunch of books that you're planning to read in the immediate future because you think that they're gonna help your understanding in one way or another, about gesticulates widely. I wanna know, sort of like, where this idea came to like, why you felt it was important to put this list together. And also, I want you to talk a little bit about the reading these books, like in community, and the sort of invitation that you extended to your subs about these books. And for people who are like, how did this lead to this conversation? I commented on Tempe work, and was like, I would love to read. They were her property with you, just like as, like strangers on the internet together. And then I was like, Wait, we should do it for book club for Women's History Month, like real trolls. And so that's how, that's how this happened, was I sort of, like, pitched 10 be on this. But yes, will you talk about sort of this piece and and why you want to read in community, these, these specific books, or these book types of books.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 16:27

Yeah. I mean, I a lot of people kind of make college sound useless at this point. They're like, oh, there's no point, you know. And I understand it. However. I think for me, what was beautiful about getting my masters and being an undergrad grad, was the conversations like, I loved Matt. I love my master's program. It was and just like Advanced Study in English, like so much more than I loved my intro classes, because it was just like, we're all on the same page. We're having these deep conversations. Things are like jumping off from the work. We're stretching our brains. I would always leave class feeling like my skin was on fire, like I would just feel like I was buzzing, like I would feel like I was high. I was like, This is amazing. Like, there's nothing better to me than good conversation. Like, I really love it, and I think it's important for us to also have context. And I think big conversation, great conversations, come out of people who are working from the same shared text. And there is so much to be said for really sitting with things that are complicated, or sitting with things that are deep or hard or like complex, with in the company of other people, because reading it alone is great, but it's kind of solitary. And so I love doing things as a group. Like, I love I can never do anything by myself. I'm always like, oh, again. Like, Oh, can like, you know the girl who always has someone go with her to the bathroom, that is me. But like, for every single facet of my life, I'm like, we should do this together, like, we should do that together, like I'm doing this thing. Do you want to come like, I'm Yeah, every research study about friendship right now is always like, you should just do, like, casual things with your friends. Nothing like no agenda. It doesn't have to be just like, go walk around together, and I'm like, I have been living this life. You live that lifestyle. I'm that person. And so I think the book like, I think I just apply the same idea to books, and also I think it's good for people to read non fiction together. Like, I think a lot of book clubs are very focused on, when we think about book club fiction, which is its own genre, even, right, it is very, you know, like it's a thriller, or it's a deep a text about a historical fiction text, or it's something about, like someone in a distant place or whatever, and they're like, oh, let's talk about these themes. But I think a non fiction book club is great for other reasons, especially when it comes to, like, contextualizing our moment. And I think in talking about they were her property, I'm excited for us to read that together, because it's we've reached a point, a high water mark, if you will. And I think that what I love about that book is that it is contextualizing white women's role in that moment in a way that I think has often been, I think, obscured, yeah, in ways that are both intentional and collaborative, yeah, and also unintentional, because of, in some ways unintentional, because of, like, misogyny and the focus on, like the men. But I, I mean, I think I'm just very struck by the fact that, like, what Martha Washington brought, Washington brought to her marriage was George Washington was slaves, and thinking about how, like, white women have always had human beings as currency, as their way through to navigate social hierarchy. They didn't own land. They owned people. And I think for those conversations like we need to be having those conversations, that's the ancestry. And even if that's not the literal ancestry, like, even if they are not, you know, their family has not been here since the 1700s or the 1600s or whatever it is, it's like, this is the tradition you've been adopted into. And so

Traci Thomas 19:53

it's, this is what it's built on, regardless of if it's your family specifically or not absolutely.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 19:59

Absolutely, and so I'm excited for Women's History Month to be talking about that kind of history, but I think that those are things that like, lead to conversations that are like, okay, like, Let's confront, let's discuss, let's ponder, let's draw connections between that kind of social violence and what we're seeing now. You know, I think it just really opens up a lot of those conversations in a really great way.

Traci Thomas 20:23

Yeah, I'm, I'm really excited to talk about the book. It's been one that's sort of been on my list that I sort of have just, like, not wanted to read, yeah, because I've been a little intimidated by it, even though I've only ever heard, like, amazing things about it. And I like to read academic texts, like I read, I read a few books like, you know, like, serious academic books every once in a while. But for some reason, this one, I've owned it for. I have it in hardcover, so I've owned it and came out saying, like, too scared to read it. So excited, we're gonna do that. And I love, I love this sort of project that you've opened up to all of us. Because I obviously, as a person who talks about books with other people for their work. I couldn't agree more. And one of the things that I think is special about our book club is that we do read serious non fiction books, like we do read history. We're not just doing book club books, if you will. We're doing, you know, Ruja Benjamin. We're doing, like, Pulitzer Prize winning books about prison riots. Like, I think that that's what makes it fun and exciting, is like when the book club is willing to go in all different directions. And like, everyone can sort of humble themselves and learn things and figure things out. And you know, if I've learned nothing else from doing this show, it's that I get to be the stupidest person in the room while figuring out all of these books publicly, which, when someone sends me an email, I'm like, Oh yeah, Traci, actually, it was this. I'm like, okay, thing,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 21:49

one thing I'm excited about, and I'm hoping that is, like, something that is becoming more I don't want to use, I hate the word normalized, but becomes more commonplace, is intellectual curiosity. And like being curious out loud and being wrong out loud, my favorite thing to say is that perfectionism is a tenant of white supremacy, and so because that's the case, like the idea that we have to be perfect, or we have to know everything on the first go, I think really stops people from ever even approaching doing something difficult, doing something hard, like reading something that feels outside of the bounds of their understanding. So I mean, I'm also doing this, like black Marxism, read along on in the newsletter on extracurricular and I'm like, this is hard. Like I was telling people, I'm like, I read it three times, so if you need to read it three times, that's totally fine. I was like, if you need to read it a fourth time, a fifth time, whatever you know. And I'm like, just, if you're like, This is what I think it means, even if it doesn't mean that, like, that's fine. I think people are kind of afraid to, like, learn and fail and whatever. And I'm like, those are things that we shouldn't be afraid of. Those are things we should welcome because you're expanding your understanding, you know. I'm like, I love to be wrong, you know. Like, not really. I'm a Virgo but, but I'm always like, if, if one day, God forbid, knock on wood, someone's like, Tempe, you said this thing, and it was very offensive. For this reason, I'm like, Oh, I'm totally open to that, because I cannot pretend to be the most Oh, right, who you know. And I think that some people are, like, afraid to read or engage or have certain conversations because they're afraid to be wrong. But I think that if you're in community with people who are like, everyone's there in good faith, everyone is there to be intellectually curious, I think it can be a really I think it can kind of radiate outward into other conversations and into other facets of life where people are open to asking more questions and open to being wrong. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 23:38

I want to stay on curiosity for a second, because you just launched a new project podcast called Silly short first syllabus, but also maybe, like a little bit of silly vibes, yes, with a friend and and one of the things that you all say is like, it's a place for curiosity and criticism, or like critique and curiosity. And I just I mean things that speak to my soul, critique and curiosity, I feel like those are, like the two those, those are the two tenets of my life, PLUS being silly. So I was like, I was like, this is I listened to the first episode. There's only one ounce of arts coming out every other week. But I'm so excited about it, and I want you to tell my our listeners here about it, because I know they are going to. I mean, it was already thrown in our Discord the day it came out, someone already, and I was literally like, well, I've already listened to it, so I didn't want to tell you guys about it yet. I'm so excited. But will you tell us a little bit about silly and, like, Why y'all want to do it, and what you hope it's going to be?

Tembe Denton-Hurst 24:40

Yeah, yeah. So BA and I are like, we're friendly, like we were just Instagram friends. And I, like, came to, like, when homebodies came out, like, I, they asked me to, like, she was doing a book club situation, and she was like, Oh, come talk to us. And so then from them, we just kind of stayed connected. Then we she, she has a podcast. She launched one call, like a podcast. Producer, right? She is, yeah, like, she's producing all the cool black girl podcasts, but she has her own podcast also called Unbound, and so she had me on there so we could talk about home bodies. And then we just went on, but we went on a book day. And so, like, we've just kind of like, been in each other's orbit for a bit, and then we just started, like, you know, sometimes when you just, like, let, like, take the top off something, and then now suddenly you guys talk all the time, yeah, sort of became our relationship, where we would just be, like, riffing and going back and forth. And I was like, we were just doing all these voice notes. And I was like, Wait, we just need a podcast. Like, what are we? And I'm like, joking, because I'm like, whatever. And we're like, no, let's do it. And so I was like, What do you think about silly for the name? And she was like, I was like, silly as in syllabus. And she was like, I love that. And then, like, the curious and the critical thing kind of came beyond that. And so our big idea with it was like, looking at, we have these things called primary texts that we're like working out the format, but the plan is that we're like doing these things. We're taking these two texts that we're bringing to each other that in some ways are like disparate ideas and are like, rooted in it could be a book, it could be a meme, it could be a Tiktok. It could be like, like, kind of just like some piece of media that we're seeing that like speaks back to this bigger idea, or like sparks and like some concept within us, and then having the conversations about where what we are bringing to each other overlap and intersect. Because I think that we all are engaging with media in various ways. And I think if you are curious and critical and a little bit silly. It all comes back to each other, like, I can connect probably anything to white supremacy. If you give me five minutes and a whiteboard, I will draw, I will create the dots for you. And so, you know, but like, that's and so we're always kind of adding things to our framework. And so we were like, nothing is off limits as far as what we will what can spark a thought. So, like, our next episode is, like, on all fours, by Miranda, July, for example, but like, and not the book and the book itself, whatever, fine, but like thinking more so about, you know what this is saying about white womanhood, you know, like, we think some like, about how like, whatever the medium is, speaks back to the bigger concept. Because I think other people think like that and like that's kind of the that's reflective of the conversations that we're having with each other over Voice Note, but the conversations I'm having with my other friends, which is, you know, we're always thinking really critically, it is always that deep for us, and so we kind of wanted to turn those conversations outward.

Traci Thomas 27:18

I love it. And you wrote that great thing about all fours being like a Western in your in your subject, like, Okay, I'm gonna keep referencing your sub stack like a stalker fan. But if you're not subscribed to extracurricular you guys, what are you even doing? Like, I don't know how to tell you what to do, because I've been trying to tell you to subscribe for like, my like, since I started my sub stack. So like, you're going to subscribe, you're like, like, I'm always tagging your shit and sub stack. I love this read that. Okay, I can't believe we've gotten this far and not talked about your book. So we're going to talk about home bodies quickly. It's a novel. It's about a black woman who works in media, and she is, we won't spoil anything. But this is so early, and it's on the black back flap, so whatever she's let go from her job, and it basically shakes up her whole life with her partner. And she, like, is, she's sort of a mess. She's She does things, she does things that are not advisable, I think, for some people. But you know, like, we all have to live our own lives. I want to know because I know you so much from, like, your non fiction writing that I remember when this book came out, I was really surprised that it was a novel. I just assumed it was a memoir, because I was like, Oh well, temby writes, like criticism and journalism, and she, like, is talking about culture. So I want to know why you just felt like you had to start here, it's such an interesting choice to me.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 28:42

Yeah, I like, I always say it's kind of like my go to it on the mountain, in a way of, like, I don't think I could ever, I don't see myself ever writing nonfiction, because I've always, ever wanted to be a novelist like that was my dream. When I was eight years old. I was like, spending my days writing in a notebook, being like, you know, here is my story about whatever. And I wrote lots of fan fiction when I was in high school, just like everybody else, fan fiction on what the click fan fiction. It's, it's, it's some lore. I

Traci Thomas 29:12

like you just said, like everybody else, let me tell you one person who did not write a single word of fan fiction. This person, all right, this person did not write not one word, not one sentence, not even a letter towards fan fiction. Okay? So not like everybody else. You are special, or maybe I'm special, but not a word.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 29:34

I was like, it is funny because I wrote the click fan fiction, because I felt like Harry Potter fan fiction and Twilight fan fiction was for the serious writers. So I felt it was a, like I was gonna clear space by writing. I don't even know what the click is. It's, it's like a, it's about, it's kind of like a Gossip Girl, but they're in middle school, okay, sort of vibes, great. Okay. It was a very insane time. So, yeah, I don't know. I was just. And it was a time, but, yeah, I always knew I was gonna write a novel, or I was always hoping to write a novel, that was always the goal. And so the fiction kind of just came about naturally. Like, I don't for me, I was like, I don't have enough life live to, like, write a memoir. I don't know what I would write about, so well you might write.

Traci Thomas 30:16

Like I was thinking, like, it could be like essays, you know, like, like the work that you do on your sub stack, and like you write, I don't know. I just I, I didn't. I only know you from your work. So it was sort of like a surprising thing to find the novel not and it's not good or bad surprising. It's just like when you think like that, it's like a reminder that we don't really know people on the internet, even though we feel that we do. And if you had said to me, oh, Tempe is writing a book, I'm like, oh, it's gonna be about, like, culture and like blackness and blah, blah, blah. I mean, it is about those things. But I just never would have been like, oh, it's gonna be a novel. But I feel like it feels like your vibe, right? Like all of the things I feel like I know about you are in the novel. It's just not what I was expecting.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 31:01

I love that. I mean, even my friends who have read it, are they always they? A lot of people say, like, it feels like you, and I think that that's such a fun it's like, such a compliment, yeah, like, I recently got coffee with a friend who I haven't seen in 10 years. We were very close in high school and, like, since, kind of just, like, lost touch, as friends from high school do. And he was just like, I'm in New York. Can we get coffee? And I was like, Sure, you know, why not? And then he was like, Yeah, I actually read your book. I said, Wait, what? Like, that's crazy. And he was just like, I could just, like, feel you. He was like, it was really interesting just to, like, read. He's like, I just felt like it was your voice. He's like, I knew that the characters were not you and things because, I mean, he was there with me in high school, you know. So he's like, I know that this is not he's like, this is not you. But he was like, I just, he was like, it was just really cool to see, like, I can kind of see you. I could just feel you in the work. And I was just like, You guys are really gonna make me cry every day, because that's such an insane compliment. Like, yeah, I don't know it's been, it's been really interesting. I'm writing something else now, and it's a diff. It's very different, not really, honestly, you'll probably be like, Oh, she once again, tell me with her two her two time, two times Same, same vibes.

Traci Thomas 32:09

But it's a novel also, yeah,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 32:11

it's another novel, and reflective of the things I care most about, like home bodies, is about a lot of things, but I think I was what I was resisting it being about was that I really wanted to write a love story. And that's not exactly what ended up happening, and that's not really what I'm doing this time, either, but at the same time it is. So it's like I just always want to write about love. So that's the direction that this next situation is taking, which is exciting. Okay, I'm

Traci Thomas 32:39

very excited. This is a good teaser for all of us. We will be we will wait however long it takes you, no rush, but we will be ready for your take on love story again. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back. And we do this every month. It's called Ask the stacks, where someone has written in looking for a book recommendation. I'm gonna read you what they said, and then you're gonna come up with at least one book. I've got three, but I've gotta be honest, this was the hardest one I've ever done. This one, I really I struggled with this one. I don't think it'll be hard for you, actually. I think that you are gonna have better recommendations than me. But if you are at home listening and you want to have your book, have a book recommendation for you from me and a guest email. Ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com Okay, this one says, Hello Traci and guest. I'm a big fan of the podcast, and was hoping to get some book recommendations for my upcoming trip to Europe. My sibling and I will be going to Paris, then taking the train across Germany to Berlin, and I'm trying to find something to read that will evoke the right adventurous out of our comfort zone joy and reflection. The trip brings maybe something set in the areas we will be traveling, or something that centers around a trip. It also is the only time we've ever ever traveled this far together without our parents. So we are bringing a while we're still young in our late 20s, attitude to the trip. That might be a good theme for one of the books I bring. As far as genres go, I think literary or historical fiction or memoir is what I'm looking for, but I'm open to others. Some books I've read recently and liked are martyr by COVID, Akbar Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin Greta and valdon by Rebecca R, by Rebecca K, Riley and butter by Asako Yuzuki. Hope information is useful, and not me rambling. Where I've tried to search books set in Germany or books about travel, none of them strike the right tone. So your recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thank you. It's hard, it's hard. It's hard because one, I just went to Germany, and I read books about Germany, but I read intense non fiction about the Holocaust and the Berlin Wall, which just doesn't sound like what you want. Oh, like literally when I travel. I am reading, like, books about history, about this place, like I am digging in deep, like the book I read was literally called the Holocaust and unfinished history. Like it was like, It's black with white writing, like it was like, serious, we're going there. They said, Logan, yeah. They said, historical text research. So here, so I actually, like did a lot of googling for you. I pulled three books, one of two of which I've read, and then two were the ones that sounded the most like what you wanted from one from a Parisian and one from a German recommendation. So that's what I've come to. I hope you like it. So my first two that I've read are Anna K and Anna K away by Jenny Lee, which are the retellings of Anna Karenina, Gossip Girl, crazy, rich, Asian style. And what I'm pulling on here is in Anna Kay. It's set in New York City, but in Anna Kay away, she goes on a trip to Korea. She's traveling around on a train. It's a lot of while we're still young, party vibes, also travel vibes, and also, it's a fun, easy book. So if you are traveling and just getting a few pages here and there, you're not gonna feel like I can't go out and explore the louver with my sibling, like it's a book you can kind of put down and enjoy. So so that's my, sort of my personal recommendation. Then I went with the Margo affair by Senay Lemoine, which is about a French girl who is about 17, I believe, and she's born to into an affair like her parents were having an affair. So she's the illegitimate child, and she takes her story to a journalist in Paris. There are more of those than you think. More of those stories. Are more of those books, more of those people, more of those children than you think. Yes, there's a lot of those children, some perhaps in my own family. I'm not exactly sure, but I can't rule it out. So that's a book that's supposed to be sort of juicy and fun. And then my Germany pick is this book is a lot older. I think it's this author has passed away, and it's called, every man dies alone by Hans Falada. And it's sort of a sad story of Nazi resistance in Berlin from a couple who is resisting the Nazis. The book was written, I think, in the 50s, but didn't get published for, like, decades, and so it's one of these, like contemporaneous fictional texts about Nazi Germany. That's where I would start. But again, this is for Yale, so we'll see. I have not did you come up with anything? Yes,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 37:39

I've not read this book yet, but I would say Good Girl by ARIA aber, which is about like a girl who's like, partying in Germany, and she's Iranian, like vibing out. So I feel like that's kind of that's the first thing that came to mind. Okay, yeah, that was like my first thought, my other thought, because train travel, okay, though a much less beautiful in its own way, much less party girl vibe is The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemingway. Oh, okay, okay, which is about train travel. There's a lot of train travel, and it's just vibey, like you feel like you're in there. You feel like you're there. So that's like my contemporary and then, like my old school pick. I was like, looking at my bookshelves while we were talking about this, and I'm like, What do I even have over here? I don't even think I've read anything set in Germany, child. I'm like, I don't, I haven't. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 38:35

not that that was, that was a real hard one for me. So Sarah, if you read any of those books, let us know how we did, and anyone who wants recommendation email, ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com, okay, Tempe, we're back to you. Two books you love, one book you hate. This is

Tembe Denton-Hurst 38:50

hard because I'm just gonna say martyr, because I was like my recent love and fave. That's fine, whatever COVID I literally I'm hand selling. I'm hand selling same book. Actually, it into people's hands. Every time I go on a book date, I've bought at least eight copies for other people. It's really like I am. Personally, I'm basically a small book seller at this point, like an independent bookseller of specifically martyr, of specifically martyr. I really loved that book. I think it's playful in like, also just really, just dealing with these really big themes in a very beautiful way. The writing is insane, just like the creative language is insane. It's all just so wild. I mean, I think it's like, I it demoralizes me. It's so good. And that's when I know that something is really good. If I've read it and been like, you know what? It's time to hang it up. I'm gonna put my jersey on the rafters. No, this

Traci Thomas 39:41

is why I don't write. Because I'm like, I read too many books, like, I know what I'm up against, and I'm competitive as hell, and I just, there's no way I'm getting even close to some of these sentences.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 39:55

What is another book you love? Another book I love is has to be. I would say I really love erasure by personal whatever it is, one of the best books I've ever read. I don't think that anything really has compared to that before or since. I think that it's one of those books that is just so precise and knows exactly what it wants to say, and has full control of the narrative, and does not leave a stone unturned, but without, like being didactic in any way. And I thought that it was just this really beautiful. It deals with class in a way that I rarely seen represented in black stories. I think it deals with and it's so, it's like, it's very precise. Like, I think even it being located in DC, and, like, all of the diff, everything about it just feels so, so specific. It's just, it's aspirational and also equally demoralizing. I'm, like, Damn personal, like my neck. Thank you so much. Like, that's crazy. It's just, did you see the movie I did so that I wrote about some I wrote about it for extracurricular about how I think the movie was a really poor copy of the book, and that it was like, not, it makes the book seem like a lot less brilliant than it is. And the book is quite literally, one of it's, it's a classic, like, it's one of those books that I'm like, Oh, everybody should be reading this, because every black person should be reading this, because it talks about, I think, a lot about speed Vax essay about, like, Can the Subaltern Speak? And specifically within that essay, the notion of the native informant, and this idea of within the subaltern group of like natives, looking at the people who choose to become like, essentially class like, engage in class migration by way of translating their people like the customs and things like that in like, for the ruling class and for the elite who in that circle, in like, what to be back is Talking about is like the British essentially. So it's like, it there's also like a racial it's like not only a class component, but a racial component. And I think about that a lot, being a writer and being a journalist and writing about black things, but also existing in and working in white spaces, and having to always be mindful of like, the goal is never to be a native informant, right? Because, and so I think that that book really brilliantly engages with that while all and it does it also, just like, monk is both. He's, like, trapped in his hubris. You know what I mean? Like, I think the film kind of incorrectly positions him as this, like, tortured genius. And I'm like, that's really not what's happening. Like,

Traci Thomas 42:38

the film misses the point of the book combined, like, and this is the joke. It misses the joke of the book and the point of the book, absolutely. I called it the Disney, the Disney vacation of erasure, exactly, because it's just like, so the book is The movie's just so clean. I was just like, you missed it.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 42:55

So bad, so bad. Like, it does not implicate him in any way, because I'm like, he and I think it's so important, like, they really make it seem like black people are a monolith, and there's one big cookout. And I'm like, the elite black, elite blacks do not want anything to do with the others, the rest of us, the rest, the rest. I'm like, y'all did not read Margot Jefferson, and it's obvious. You guys did not read our kind of people, and it's obvious, you know what I mean? I'm like, maybe you are the you are the families in our kind of people. Because if this is, like, if I just thought it was such an interesting like, it was so deeply sympathetic to monk in a way that I felt was just like, disingenuous for, like, what the point of the work is? And I think, yes, we don't see enough books about class. We don't see enough books about, you know, the inner workings of the black community and, like, those stratifications. Yeah, I don't know. I was just like, okay, like, I was, like, a rich person had to have made this because there's not, like, interviews, like, it's not clear eyed in the way that erasure was. So, yeah, I didn't, I didn't like the book, I didn't like the movie, but I loved the book. I'm still in awe of the book. It's one of those things where I'm like, I need to go back and read it again, just to, like, understand its construction. Because I think I was so like, smooth, yeah, very different

Traci Thomas 44:03

book club last year, and it was definitely a favorite. It's so

Tembe Denton-Hurst 44:07

good. Like, very rarely do I think of books as a perfect book, but that, to me, is a perfect book. I could not think of a thing that I would do differently or, like, I mean, I just left. I was like, Oh, well, you know, Hey, okay, wait, find one more book that I love. Okay, you can do one more um training school for Negro girls by Camille Acker. It is one of them. Know that it's so good. It's like a collection of short stories set in DC, and it's about black women and girls in DC, and it's just really good. She's a great writer. I'm waiting for her next book. Like the second that it hits, I see an in for any like, whisper of information about it. I'm all over it. I just really loved it. I think that the short stories are just really, really good, like she's just really talented. All of the characters feel very alive. Maybe I feel that way because of my connection to DC, but I just really love it, a book I hate. And I feel very brave in saying this is such a fun age by Kylie. Right? Okay,

Traci Thomas 45:01

I want you to say more. Okay, go ahead. Say more, because I did not love such a fun age, to the point that I almost didn't read the second book, and then I really liked the second book like a lot.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 45:14

You know what's interesting, and the reason why I feel brave about saying because I don't like to say, I don't talk like I just, I'm always, I don't like talking about, there's books that I just really don't like. Don't like, right? Like, I just, this was, this was pointless. This is empty. The reason why I didn't like such a fun age and upon, and I've been sitting with my dislike of such a fun age since it came out, right, because I and now on the other side, like some years on, with some distance from the book, I can talk about it in a way that feels critical, but not cruel, if that makes sense, yes, because I think that such a fun age is not for black people, and we have to, we have to remember that that's the only way that's I had to look at it and say, This is not for me. This is not for us. It was positioned that way, which I don't think is Kylie's fault. Having been through the publishing machine, I understand how marketing is not necessarily always in line with the with the author's intention. Yeah, yeah, I'm saying I hate it. I don't hate it as much like now that I understand it, or I've reframed it differently. I don't know that I hate it. I still don't love it, but I understand now, and I understand this more, what it was, what it's trying to do, where I kind of, I think of it as like Gatsby in its approach, yeah, like, I look at it and think, I like, to me, it's most similar to The Great Gatsby in that it is this, like taxonomy of white liberal attitudes toward black people, yes. And it's really focusing in on, you know, the psychology of white people, how they see themselves, and what happens when a black woman is just like in that or like is very like, caught up and tangled in that orbit, and in some ways, is detached from her personhood as a result. Yeah, I think where I took a lot of issue with it was that like a mirror is is a collection of stereotypes. I don't think that she's she's not a black woman that I would recognize or admire. Personally, I was, I had a lot of issues with a mirror as a character, because I just felt that like and it's not to say that like black people have to be ambitious to matter like, I actually, I'm a big fan of black mediocrity. But she went, she went beyond mediocrity, and was like, there were moments and she would say things like, you know, I don't know what I'm good at, aside from caring for this girl, I don't know, you know, she was like, she was so leaning into the mammy characterization to a level that I was like, it was interesting. I'm like, I didn't sense, like, the spirit of resistance in the way that I was working, especially when I read it, I was like, Oh, this is really fascinating. Like, this is, you know, like, I'm looking I'm like, I'm seeing this. But I just felt like that interiority didn't extend to a mirror, which when you're told that a book is for you, and then the book is like the character, in some ways, feels like a betrayal of she doesn't feel known to you in any way, right? You know, I was, I was upset by that, but I think many years out from reading it, I now understand, like I look at it differently. I was like, okay, yeah, I I've chosen to think that Amira as a character is intentionally like that.

Traci Thomas 48:47

Yeah, interesting. I did not, I did not care for that book for different reasons. Well, similar reasons. But also, just like, I thought that it lost steam, like, I just thought that, like, it started off so strong, and then I was just like, are we done? I feel like we're done. I would be so interested to hear what you think of the second book, because I thought the second book was better and but I do think the thing that Kylie Reed does is that she writes about white people like she is writing about whiteness. She is not writing about blackness. Even when there are black characters, they are like a lens through which to see white people.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 49:27

And that's what and that, yeah, and like, when I started to understand the work as doing that, that's when I that's when I was like, oh, it's like, Gatsby, like, yeah, where we have the Nick character, and he's there for the function of showing our

Traci Thomas 49:40

eyes, yeah, showing the eyes. Other thing,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 49:43

yeah. And so, you know, I did not see myself on the page.

Traci Thomas 49:47

That's fair. What are you currently reading? I'm

Tembe Denton-Hurst 49:52

reading Sula. Oh, yeah. How many times have you read it? It's my first time, which I know, super. Time, yeah, oh, my God, I know, because that's always everyone's like, how many? Like, everyone's on there, like, seven, three read.

Traci Thomas 50:07

I know I've only read it once, but I just know you were saying you've read so many of these books and, like, you're so well read. I just, you know, oh, okay, when you finish. We did an episode with Brit Bennett about it. Oh,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 50:18

fun. Yeah, that was our book club. Yeah, I'm in part one right now. Of I'm in part one. So I'm like, done with I'm like, starting part two. And it's like, it is. It's a lot so far. I'm like, Okay, I'm waiting to see because I'm just like,

Traci Thomas 50:36

have the best time. I love it. It's my I think it's probably my favorite of hers that I've read,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 50:41

really, have you read Song of Solomon? I have

Traci Thomas 50:43

and I like song. I liked Song of Solomon, but Sula, just like the relationship between the women was just so interesting to me, yeah, in a way. I mean, I really liked Song of Solomon. That's my second favorite. Like, they're neck and neck, and I think I kind of go back and forth between the two, but I just, I loved Sula, like, I just, I also thought Sula was like, sort of fun in its like, fucked upness, like it's so dark, but like, I felt like Toni Morrison was like, a little bit playful with the pen in that one, in a way that felt different to Some of the other ones that I've read, or, like, I don't know, I just, I love it, like, I love it. It's dark, for sure, but there's some, I don't want to say more, but there's some, but like, I love the bottom, like, just like the name the bottom is, like the plate, like, it's just, it's so, it's so Morrison to do that with, like, the bottom, top of the hill. Anyways,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 51:40

love it. Song of Solomon is one of my favorite books of all time. Like, it's hallowed. It's a hallowed ground for me. So I'm like, it's, it's interesting. I'm I'm liking it. I'm just like, Okay. Like, I'm like, Are you I was like, Do you want Flannery share a little bit of a break? Because, like, it's just like, very I'm like, oh my god, Miss Tony, is really, really, I haven't read Morris in a long time, too, so it's been it's been nice to return to, to the to the work

Traci Thomas 52:06

we do one a year here for book club. And we've gotten now to the point where we're sort of in the books that nobody really wants to do. So like, we haven't done paradise yet. We haven't done whole love yet. Like we haven't done like, those ones. And it's been interesting, because, like, you know, we started with Bluest Eye, then did beloved that did so, like, it was, like, everybody was like, fighting, yeah. And then it started, like, after we did Song of Solomon, I was like, Where will we go next? So it's been, it's fun for me to get to because I had never read Morrison before I started the show. Oh, wow, yeah. So I have been talk about, like, embarrassingly, learning and being wrong about things like, I have been reading her publicly for the last seven years, like, first time encountering the work, and that's been really interesting and hard and fun, but totally challenging. Okay, how do you decide what you're gonna read next? It's

Tembe Denton-Hurst 52:58

so mood focused, like I read, like, my wife and I are now, like, in a book club together, because she's not a reader, like, she's about this, yeah, she's discovered audiobooks, and she loves that. So we were reading Traci de on, and then I think we're gonna read the neighbor favor next, and I also want to read a marvelous light with her, like we're reading, like, like, you know, I'm doing reading black Marxism. So I'm like, I need to read some things that are some things that are like later. It also just depends, like, how I'm feeling in the moment. I'm like, I think I had such a good beginning of the reading year last year, okay? And it descended into madness. And so I've been having a hard time getting back same

Traci Thomas 53:38

last year started off too strong. It was too strong. It was upsetting

Tembe Denton-Hurst 53:42

when I say so, like, my first book was, uh, you poke a Igbos. Is it Anansi gold? I think it is. It's like a non fiction book about the Ivan Ghana Trust Fund, like the scheme brilliant. She ate that. It was so good. After that, I read erasure after Well, after that, I read martyr. After that, I read erasure, so it was like, hit after hit after hit, yeah, and it wasn't sustainable. Then we just started, like, going like this. And I read biography of x by Catherine Lacey, which is really good, you know, like, all like, where it's just like I was reading, and even if, like, like, I was reading books that, like, ultimately, this is not my favorite book. The book had a vision. It had a notion. It had an idea. The writing was really good, yeah. And then we slipped into something different toward the mid the middle,

Traci Thomas 54:32

I think, 10, nine out of the 10 books that made it into my like 2024, top 10 last year I read before May, yeah, which is wild, because, I mean, like, like, 80% of what I read last year were books from 2024 Like, it wasn't like, I just, like, read a bunch of books and then was like, let me put this out. Like it was such a weird year. I think what for a lot of reasons, but, I mean, I loved James, and I read James and martyr both in like, January of last year. Those ended up being my two favorite novels of the year. It's just like, and I read colored television by dancing, which I also loved super early. I love dancing. I love that kind of mess. But also I am, I am that I am mixed. I am like, the all of that humor, all of that stuff is like, so me. I love new people. I'm like, such a dancing fan. And I love her messy, weird characters. I

Tembe Denton-Hurst 55:27

think she has a great name.

Traci Thomas 55:32

Just vicious, a vicious takedown.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 55:37

I just, I love her name. I think it's great. I was like, you know, there's everyone, like, you have perfect names her and sizza have perfect names. To me, Solana row will never not be in the game Hall of Fame for me.

Traci Thomas 55:50

We'll move on. Okay, I this is sort of like our quick round, because we're definitely like out of time or close to it. But what's the last book that made you laugh

Tembe Denton-Hurst 56:00

reliably. Hope. By Andrew rider, okay. Last book that made you cry, an American marriage. By tayari Jones, ooh. Last

Traci Thomas 56:09

book that made you angry.

Tembe Denton-Hurst 56:12

Shadow born, by Traci,

Traci Thomas 56:15

okay, okay. What's the last book where you felt like you learned a lot

Tembe Denton-Hurst 56:19

black Marxism by Sandra Robinson. What's a book that brings you joy seven days in June? Yes. What's

Traci Thomas 56:28

a book that you are proud, you feel proud for having read,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 56:37

playing in the dark whiteness in the literary imagination?

Traci Thomas 56:40

Okay? What about a book you're embarrassed that you've never read?

Tembe Denton-Hurst 56:45

Oh, my God, so many like, I've never read Edith. Edith Wharton, which feels embarrassing

Traci Thomas 56:52

to me. I'm gonna read custom of the country this year. If you'd like to read with me. Yeah,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 56:56

I'm trying to read custom of the country. Everyone. A lot of people I talk to who I like respect as writers are, like, it's Edith Wharton for me. And I'm like, okay, you know, I'm like, what is what is it? What's happening here? Yeah, oh, wait, I actually am. I was embarrassed. I'm embarrassed that I, like, read 50 Shades of Gray.

Traci Thomas 57:13

Like, that's mine too. I'm not embarrassed that I read it. I'm embarrassed that I liked it, that I was enjoyed my time and read all three quickly. Yeah,

Tembe Denton-Hurst 57:22

I read it when I was extremely young. I was way too young to be reading that, but I was having the best time. I was like, this is the best time. I was also a big Twilight fan. Okay?

Traci Thomas 57:29

I was, I never read Twilight. Um, just it's useless

Tembe Denton-Hurst 57:33

for you to read it now, like, it's ideal when you're a 12 year old girl. Do you know what I mean? That's the timing.

Traci Thomas 57:38

That's right. Um, is there any book that you think people would be surprised to know that you love?

Tembe Denton-Hurst 57:48

Maybe, like, wellness by Nathan hill or something like that. Like, okay, you know, there's all this like conversation right now about, like, are white like, are white men becoming irrelevant in publishing? And I'm like, No girl. I'm like, I buy a lot of white men's books. So do I when I go to McNally Jackson and I tally up them, books five, like, if I'm reading new releases, I'm like, I can, like, go through and I'm like, That's by a white man, that's by a white man. I read a lot of books by white men, and, you know, sometimes they do be cooking. So I it is what says

Traci Thomas 58:18

people were not happy with me. But last year, 2024 I was like, I read a lot of non fiction. And I was like, it's a very good year for the white men. 2024 non fiction was white men said, we are we will not be erased. We're still

Tembe Denton-Hurst 58:34

here. If they if this helps them get on their job, by all means. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, if this pushes you to write, to read, to go bigger, bigger and Beyonder. You know, just do more. I'm off competition. That's right, exactly. This is gonna put the battery in their bag. Yes, let's go. I

Traci Thomas 58:50

forgot to ask you this. How do you like to read? What is your ideal setting? Snacks and beverages? Is there a vibe? Is there a temperature? Are there accessories set the scene. Ideal

Tembe Denton-Hurst 59:02

reading situation. First thing in the morning, open my eyes, pick up a book. If it's a book that requires notation, then I'm gonna have, like, my sticky notes two by two. Specifically bold colors they have. They have a primary color one, so it's like red and white and blue and green, and they're beautiful. They're a great shade. Specifically the MUJI 0.38 pen, or the pop in gel pen. It's really good for those sticky notes, then also the little sticky note flags, important to me for passages I want to remember if it's a non fiction book I will write in it, because of college, which broke the barrier of writing in books. I do not write in fiction books, okay? So then if it's a non fiction book, I will pull out a highlighter, if necessary. Mooji has great highlighters, okay? And that is my And then sometimes, like if I'm reading black Marxism, I also have to have a notebook, because. I'm both reading, and then I'm writing notes. Got

Traci Thomas 1:00:03

it, and no snacks and beverages. With your reading, no

Tembe Denton-Hurst 1:00:06

snacks and beverages, although, if I'm reading first thing in the morning, there probably will be a Celsius involved. Okay, oh, okay, turn on Celsius. Good morning. I love Celsius. I love it so much. It's really I was never a caffeine person, and then I've never had one. Don't do it. Don't start. I won't, I won't. I won, I won't. It's like, you know, like people who do jewel pods or whatever. It's not like, addicting like that, but it's more like an energy drink, you know? I mean, it's embarrassing. I might as well be drinking a monster. Yeah, well, my husband still drinks Red Bull. Yeah, my wife drinks Red Bull too. I'm like, what's happening? No, that's so weird. I'm like, What are you doing? Yeah, yeah,

Traci Thomas 1:00:41

it's so weird. I'm like, take it out of the house, and then I'm like, I'm so embarrassed to be like, at the park with our kids and you're drinking a fucking Red Bull. Like, Okay, last question for you as she takes a sip from her Celsius. It's from the New York Times Book Review. I stole it from them. If you could require the current president of the United States to read one book? What would it be? A

Tembe Denton-Hurst 1:01:06

People's History? By Howard Zinn, it's

Traci Thomas 1:01:09

a banger, yeah. Would

Tembe Denton-Hurst 1:01:13

be useful on tyranny, by Timothy Snyder, everything, every honestly, honestly, The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein, the Hungry Caterpillar, you know, wear the wild things, anything like, literally prove to me that you've read a book. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, that's literally, I'm like, One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish. Like, I don't know, like the bar is so, so beneath the floor.

Traci Thomas 1:01:43

Yeah, it's deep. It's deep. It's a bunker. It's underground. Yeah, it starts Okay, well, everybody, this has been just a fucking delight with Tempe Denton first, who is the author of home bodies, also the author of my favorite sub stack. Don't tell anybody else they're gonna know. They're gonna find out extracurricular, and she's coming back on Wednesday, March 26 to discuss they were her property by Stephanie e Jones Rogers for our March Book Club. If you are intimidated by history books, academic books, read it with us. We already told you, we're curious, we're critical, and I'm the stupidest person in the room, so you're gonna be fine. I promise I will have less intelligent things to say than whatever you're thinking at home. So read with us. It's gonna be a great time. Tenby, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me and everyone else we will see you in the stacks. You all right,

y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to Tembe Denton-Hurst for joining the show. Don't forget, our book club pick for March is they were her property by Stephanie e Jones Rogers, which we will be discussing on Wednesday, March 26 with Tembe Denton-Hurst as our returning guest. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks andjoin the stacks pack and check out my substack at tracithomas.substack.com. Make sure you're subscribed to the stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, please, please, please leave us a rating and a review for more from the stacks. Follow us on social media @thestackspod on Instagram, threads and Tiktok, and @thestackspod_ on Twitter, and you can check out our website at thestackspodcast.com. This episode of the stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas, with production assistance from Megan Caballero. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight, and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

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Ep. 360 Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov — The Stacks Book Club (Ira Madison III)