Ep. 188 Creating an Icon with Dawnie Walton

Written By Megan Caballero

Our guest today is journalist and editor Dawnie Walton; she is the debut author behind one of this year's most talked about novels, The Final Revival of Opal and Nev. Dawnie shares her research process, how oral histories can elevate fictional characters, and the rock stars that inspired her own rock icon.

The Stacks Book Club selection for November is Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison. We will discuss the book on November 24th with Dawnie Walton.

 
 

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Traci Thomas 0:08

Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host Traci Thomas. One of my favorite novels this year is A Final Revival of Opal and Nev, a fictionalized oral history of a rock duo from the 70s. And our guest today is the author of this book, Dawnie Walton. In addition to being a debut author, Dawnie is also a journalist and editor who focuses on the intersections of identity plays and pop culture, all of which we talk about today. The stacks book club pick for November is Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison. We will be discussing the book on our show on Wednesday, November 24, with Dawnie Walton. I am now thrilled to present you all with my conversation with a wonderful Dawnie Walton.

Okay, everybody, I'm very excited. The author of maybe my favorite novel this year so far. He's here on the stacks today, Dawnie Walton. Welcome to The Stacks.

Dawnie Walton 1:49

Traci. I'm screaming to be here. So excited.

Traci Thomas 1:54

I'm really excited too; I have so many questions about your book. But before we get to the novel, will you just sort of tell folks a little bit about yourself?

Dawnie Walton 2:04

So I currently live in New York. I've been here for over 20 years, but I'm originally from Jacksonville, Florida, also home to DC. Phil, you're down to Moniz. I have a background in journalism. As a kid I always wanted to write and I thought that was the practical way to do it. But in my heart, I always wanted to write fiction. And so after a very long career, in magazines, primarily. And I had risen to sort of very kind of senior level editorial roles where I wasn't really attached to words much at all anymore. I decided it was time to follow my dream. And at the time, I was sort of working on the edges of my day, early in the mornings before my job late at night. And I decided it was time to make something more of that. So the book I was writing was this one, my first book baby the final revival of Oberlin, NIV and went to grad school with a mission to finish to actually finish something I was working on and was able to do it. And here we are.

Traci Thomas 3:09

I love this so much. I love that you had a whole other writing career before this book kind of came into the world and took people I think it's fair to say by storm like I feel like I saw this book everywhere people were talking about it. And I think that's really exciting. Because I think so often we're obsessed with like, fresh out of undergrad person like Sally Rooney's 17 year old child writes a book, you know, and like, right, I love that you have life and work experience as a writer, which is also super rare. How does writing, as a journalist, compare to writing a fiction story? And where do you feel like I think a lot of people think of these things as being really different. I'm curious where they're very similar.

Dawnie Walton 3:54

Well, you know, Traci, what's funny is that in my career, as a journalist, I was mostly doing editing work, I didn't do much writing at all, I kind of went in started as a copy editor, and then went into online editing. And I think there is still kind of a writer's mind that goes in into that to some degree. But as an editor, I was really kind of thinking about, like the full picture of a story. And I think that really helps with my fiction writing, where I was thinking about from the very beginning of something, where's this going to end up, not necessarily knowing what the final note would be, but sort of knowing what is interesting about it, and the things that should be explored in it. So those things were super helpful.

Traci Thomas 4:46

That's interesting. So when you sat down to write Opel and Nev, did you have a big picture?

Dawnie Walton 4:53

I did not know where it was going. On which is wild. I mean, I'm totally a pantser, as they say, in the literary world.

Traci Thomas 5:06

I've never heard of that.

Dawnie Walton 5:07

Yeah, so it's like Pantsers and planners, I think is the opposite of that. But a pantser is someone who's just flying by the seat of the pants, you know, you have some characters, and you have some worlds that you're working in. And it's just sort of like going step by step and letting these characters take you where they may, I knew what I wanted the character arcs to be. And I knew what I wanted the tone to be. And the kind of story that I wanted to tell, but the exact like plot points, what was going to happen, I had no idea. No idea.

Traci Thomas 5:40

Okay, we should tell people what the books about I'm sorry, I sort of dove in, because I'm so excited to talk about it. But I'll give sort of a quick, my version, and then you tell me if I missed anything, or I left anything out. Okay. It's called the final revival of Opal nav. And it's about a rock duo in the 1970s. Opal. Is this like? ostentatious, fashionable, fierce, black woman who is sort of like the heart and soul of this group. And nev is this British redheaded, white boy, who is sort of the like mastermind. It's his thing. And then she kind of is the one that you can't take your eyes off of. And it's about their career in the 70s. And then I don't want to spoil anything, how it sort of plays out moving forward. There's an incredible event that takes place in the book that I think you tell us on like page two. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ah, one really? Yeah. It's very early. So I'm not spoiling anything. There is a concert that has a shooting involved, and someone dies. I'm not a shooting, but like, a beating, die beating? Yeah, I've got that confused, because I'm just getting ready to ask you about another question. But it's a beat and someone dies. And so we're sort of working towards this part of the story. And it's an I should say this. It's an oral history, which is one of my favorite nonfiction genres. So I was super excited to have a fiction oral history. So that's sort of a weird, not super concise, meet a copy editor version of the book, what did I leave out?

Dawnie Walton 7:17

Ah, that was really, really good. I think the only thing I would add is that this story is being told by a journalist in the year 2016. And the journalist has a personal connection to Oberlin, Nev. And this is not a spoiler to say, because this is very first sentence of the book. She discloses to her reader that her father was the drummer for Opal enough, and that he had an affair with Opal and died in this incident up before she was born. So her mother was pregnant with her this thing happened, she never met her father. And so her doing this oral history is sort of a way for her to kind of interpret the past and understand her dad and all these different things. And so you have the two different timelines in 2016 and 1970s, early 1970s.

Traci Thomas 8:12

Okay. Why did you want to tell this story? And how did it come to you? Because it's so specific and so unique, and like the form and the story and everything really come together in this beautiful way. So I need to know, what were you doing that led this to happen?

Dawnie Walton 8:28

Oh, gosh. So I started writing it in 2013. And I was going through a lot of stuff in my personal life had gone through a breakup that was very devastating. And I was kind of questioning everything about what I was doing. And I had more time on my hands. And I decided it was time to go back to a person I used to be who would do writing and make up stories. And one day I was home alone, I was watching a documentary called 20 feet from stardom. Good, very good, right? Yeah. Yes. So for those who haven't seen it, it is about background singers, most of them black women whose voices you totally know, like Mary Clayton on Rolling Stones give me shelter, but you don't know their names or their faces. And at the very beginning of that film, they show this footage from a Talking Heads concert. I have always loved talking heads. I love David Byrne. He's such a weirdo and the cameras on him. And then to his left you see these two black women who were just so joyful and dynamic. Their names are Edna Holt and Lynn Mabry and they look like they could have been my Auntie's, like they had these micro braids and these bright red lips and they were just so committed to this weird music, and I just wanted to pull one of them to center stage with David Byrne. And, and see what happened for the rest of the concert. And the image of those two characters is something that really stuck with me. And I thought, I'm going to start writing this down. And so Opels voice came to me first. And the reason I chose oral history is because like you, I've always loved it. And I used to work for Entertainment Weekly. And we use the forum a lot for telling the stories of like, iconic movies or TV shows or albums. And it just lends like instant icon status to anything, because it's like, there's so many people who have an opinion about this thing, who have funny stories about this thing. And I wanted Opel enough to some degree to feel iconic. Yeah. And I also wanted to get their voices down raw, you know, in moments without narration. And so that's how it started. And it ended up really working for me, weirdly, I loved playing around with it, and it felt like play just switching voices and finding out who each character was through like the way they cursed or the way they put a sentence together or, you know, Nev kind of talking and run on sentences and Opal sounding very much like Southern women I've known and, and all of those things. So it was something that started as a lot of fun, and then got a lot more serious, the deeper I got into it.

Traci Thomas 11:28

Yeah. And that's sort of how the book kind of unfolds to. I mean, it starts serious because you know, there's gonna be this like death. But it's sort of like a fun story. And like, the characters are so carefree. And it's true that I mean, I love oral history because I love the lack of editorializing. Like I love just hearing about a story from the people that were there. Like, one of my favorite oral histories is, I don't know if you remember the now defunct website Grantland, but it was like a smart filter. And they did an incredible one on malice at the palace.

Dawnie Walton 12:01

Oh, yeah. Just watched a documentary about that.

Traci Thomas 12:05

Yeah, they did an incredible on that. And then they also did an incredible one on the 1989 World Series earthquake. And like, it's just like these moments, and you get all these different voices. And what I love and you do this in your book is it's like you have your main characters. And then you have like, someone pop in for like two sentences like, yeah, and I helped her put her lipstick on, and it was really ugly. And you're like, great, cool, awesome. And like, it's like these little like, because if you were writing it as like a traditional novel, it would be like, and then the makeup designer came and you'd have to get this like whole backstory of this person who doesn't even matter and right parents, but you can just throw them in, you know, you get to name them something funky, fresh, you totally get a sense of who they are. And then it's like, they say their three little bits, and then they're gone. And like that's life, right like that someone comes in and comes out. And so I just I just love that about the format. I love that about your work. Are there like specific oral histories that you can think of that you've loved?

Dawnie Walton 12:59

Yes. So my favorite is actually one called Live from New York about Saturday night, Lars? Yes. James Andrew Miller, I think and Tom shales and Tom shields I used to work with at the Washington Post. Really great reporting. But what I loved about it was it was so unexpected the stories that everyone was telling. I remember the jacket copy, I think it was a lot of kind of funny quotes. And then it was one from like, Dana Carvey, and he was like I cried in my dressing room every day was like what, like, what was going on? And just to understand, you know, how different icons because so many have come out of that show. We're sort of shaped or triggered or or made joyful or whatever, by going through the same experience was really, really interesting to me.

Traci Thomas 14:00

Yeah, I love there's one on the office that I read this last year. That's like pretty good. it fizzles, but it starts off really strong. And then there's the one on 911 the book, only plane in the sky. That's also incredible.

Dawnie Walton 14:12

Oh, I haven't read that.

Traci Thomas 14:13

Oh, my God that I just got my stomach just started like clenching. It's so good. But it's really it's a lot. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about research because I know you did a ton. I can just tell because there's like all these little details. So I want to know how you balanced research with your own creative license?

Dawnie Walton 14:32

Oh, that's a great question. What I tried to do is, I tried to be creative first, and I tried to write out the story as I sort of saw it or felt it first, and then I would go back and research the thing more thoroughly and make sure it was feasible or realistic. One of the things that really helped with this was at the time I was writing a bunch of the research intensive parts. I was actually at a residency at McDowell and in the studios at McDowell, there is no internet at all. And I also had no phone phone service at the time I had T Mobile, it stopped, I like I had no bars at all, in the middle of the woods in New Hampshire. And so what I would do was I would spend all day writing and just like, as I saw things happening, and then I would go to the library on campus, like after all that, and that's what I would do the research, because otherwise, I find now that I'm back, you know, when I'm back in a normal setting with internet, I will get distracted by the research, like in the moment when I'm trying to write something and it kind of like takes me off course. So you know, and I was looking at everything. I was looking at YouTube clips from late night TV back in the 70s, when late night was so edgy and surprising and not as like scripted. I was looking at Billboard charts, I was past reading, old New York Times stories and times machine there archive all of those things. I mean, thank God for the internet, I don't know, like how people used to do it. I also read a book about the Battle of Versailles by Robin divan. So it was a mix of like reading full texts, and then just like going deep, deep dives on the internet.

Traci Thomas 16:31

I love that. Okay. There is this photo in the book that gets talked about. First of all, I know I'm not alone, someone actually just told me this recently, people are googling for that photo, I want you to know people really think that this exists. I've had multiple people be like, I Googled for the phone. And I'm like, even if not fix it, I think because I really liked the book. And so I was telling people about it. I think some people thought it was nonfiction because it really, really comes off that way. Like it feels like super real life, you have all these real big pop culture characters. But are there any photos that are real, that you feel like kind of inspired this image in the book? Because it feels so real?

Dawnie Walton 17:15

Oh, well, thanks. Um, it's funny, you should ask that because for three years of my career, I was working at a startup that was the reincarnation of Life magazine, which of course has some of the most classic photography all time. And that website was a photography website. And we would do photo essays like tied to various anniversaries. And so it required digging into the archives and say, finding a classic photo and calling to the warehouse in New Jersey to get the full set of photography, right. So you had like all these other pieces from the shoot all these other pictures, but then you also would have like the photographer's notes, they would type up the story of the photoshoot. And if you know the photographer was still alive by that time, these primarily these men were in their 90s, right, but I had the opportunity to interview some of them. And what was so fascinating was the gap between how you interpret the photo, or the feeling you get from seeing the photo, and what's actually true about what's happening. And that distance was really compelling to me. And I think, you know, because I was doing a lot of celebrity stuff, like looking at old photo shoots of Marilyn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn. And, you know, what was interesting to me was just the idea of imagery around people, and how it builds up their persona and how true those things actually are. And so that was what I wanted to explore in this photo of Opal jewel and nev Charles escaping this moment that was very sort of tumultuous and very tragic, but also launched them into fame.

Traci Thomas 19:16

Yeah, I feel like having that sort of be the thing that launched them just feel so right on. I know so many people who have become, you know, successful out of these, like really dark and horrible events. So I really like that that's like tied into their, to their story. I sort of mentioned this, that there's like a lot of pop cultural references throughout the book, like famous people that we know like, there's like a Quentin Tarantino moment in the book, but so good. I'm wondering sort of how you thought about bringing in real life people and if you ever thought about like creating an entire world or if you always knew that they were sort of going to be situated in a world that the reader knew.

Dawnie Walton 19:56

So the complication of the book was you You have to make you have to write it in such a way that it feels like the reader has known about this group, because in the world of the book, like they're famous, right, but their reader in the actual world has to learn about these people. Right? And so, you know, the reason I was bringing in real people in real events was to give everything context, give give context around Oakland, Nev. So it situates them in history and, and cultural moments that feel like big and important and meaningful. And I was also, you know, those moments where it felt really risky when I was bringing in, like Quentin Tarantino, and like Janelle Monae, and all these people who had commentary about Opal and Neff, and actually, you know, it was like, when we were going through publishing, I was like, asleep. Okay. And it ended up being being fine. But I was thinking as a journalist again, and thinking, if I was doing a book about this duo, who would have something interesting to say, who would be influenced by them, which is where Janelle Monae came in, because I thought, you know, yes, hopeful jewel might have been a heroine for her. And then, like, who would have something kind of wild to say, and something a little bit eyebrow raising to say, just to make it interesting? That's what brought those those real people in.

Traci Thomas 21:31

Yeah. So I love those moments. And you write sort of like, you know, this book sort of comes into the intersection of like, identity and pop culture and sort of a lot of things. But those are the two things that are coming to my mind right now. How do you navigate sort of the way that pop culture sees things, which isn't necessarily always the way that things are?

Dawnie Walton 21:59

You know, I think that was weirdly, that was also a part that required research. It was to be sitting here, and you will, then it was like 2015 2016, or whatever. Sitting from that standpoint, and understanding what an artist's image is, in that moment. And then going back and reading things about them written 30 years ago, 40 years ago, and seeing how they reviewed them. You know, I mean, I'm trying to think of a celebrity who's a good example of that. But a sports figure, of course, would be Muhammad Ali, sure, who, you know, by the end of his life, was pretty much a hero to everyone. Right. But at the time, where he was being, you know, boycotting the Olympics, you know, not going to Vietnam, he was written about in a very different way. Yeah, it was presented in a very different way. And so there are those gaps to consider. And I think with the character of Opal, what was interesting to me was thinking about her as an artist who was always somewhat ahead of her time, in terms of her style and who she was and how she presented herself. But then, in 2016, it's like the moment is finally coming. The moment is finally here. And so what does that mean, for her?

Traci Thomas 23:32

Right? Okay, I feel like I'm sure you get asked about this all the time, but I don't care. I haven't asked you about it. So I'm going to the Rolling Stones have this iconic concert at at Altamont in the Bay Area. Right? It's in? Yeah, that's right. I'm like I'm from here. I feel like I know this. And it involves the Hells Angels, and a black man is killed. And it's this really crazy moment that feels so emblematic of what was going on in the Bay Area, and in rock and roll and all of these things. Was that event influential to you? Like, was that something that you pulled on because of the concert in your in your book? That's all I could think about?

Dawnie Walton 24:15

Oh, totally. Okay, totally. That was inspiration. And in fact, there's a, I think, in one of the footnotes I mentioned, that people call this concert, ultimate ease, yes, because the real ultimate happens, like maybe a year before this one. But yeah, I do a lot of inspiration from that. I mean, there's so much going on with that moment in time. And it's very terrifying if you see the footage from it, and they're actually playing Sympathy for the Devil. So it seems sort of like dark and demonic and confused, and I wanted to create that same kind of chaos with this concert. The concert in my book, what I wanted to do was because I've I've always been fascinated by the early 1970s, it was such a there was so much going on in music at that time. If you look at the Billboard charts, there were so many different kinds of songs on the, on the charts. And you know, you had like Laurel Canyon stuff going on, and you had proto punk. And you had, of course, the conscious soul music of the time and all these different things. We're doing well with different people. And you have in the book, this record label that is just throwing spaghetti against the wall, trying to figure out what works. And so they're, you know, sure, let's try this. Let's try that and then do the showcase concert where, like, all these different kinds of people and fan bases are coming together in one room. And so, you know, when I was thinking about this concert, I was thinking about, Oh, God, if you had, you know, Southern rock band, right, you know, and they're biker fans with a group like oppo and Neff. Right, that's wild, right. It's gonna happen there. And that's how I was really kind of framing that.

Traci Thomas 26:11

Yeah, I think is there a there's a documentary about the ultimate concert. Rome.

Dawnie Walton 26:17

Yeah, I think it is. I think it's actually called Gimme Shelter.

Traci Thomas 26:20

Yeah, I was gonna say it's called. I was gonna say it's called Sympathy for the Devil, but I don't think that's right. But I definitely feel like there is a documentary. Yeah, yeah. I learned about it in Season of the Witch. Do you know that book all about San Francisco? I don't know. That was not a book, but they have like a really interesting section on that.

Dawnie Walton 26:39

Yeah. Colson Whitehead also has a whole section on it in John Henry days. Oh, okay. I got a chocolate that came out from years ago.

Traci Thomas 26:47

Yeah. I'm, I'm fascinated by that event. And yeah. Okay. This is my last question for you about Opal and Nev for now. We'll see. I might come up with some more. What were you listening to when you were writing the book?

Dawnie Walton 27:00

Oh, many different things. I was listening to a lot of artists that had direct influence on Oprah for me, okay. So I was listening to a 70s funk icon named Betty Davis, who was this amazing black woman who was a former model and a songwriter. And she didn't even really call herself a singer, she was more like a, she said she was like a Vocalizer or something like that. And she made this kind of wild, funk rock, fairy sexual music in New York City. And she had kind of a very brief heyday, and then got sick of her label, trying to tell her who, who to be, and just quit the industry altogether. And she is basically like a recluse. Now, in her hometown of Pittsburgh, there's actually a really great documentary about her called, they say I'm different. But I was listening to that I was listening to a lot of the music I loved in high school. So I grew up, you know, loving all kinds of stuff, you know, the kind of native tongues hip hop that my cousin introduced me to, and all the 70s soul that my parents love, Stevie Wonder Marvin Gaye. But then also, I was really into alternative music and indie rock, and it felt like wild and taboo and like, I wasn't supposed to be listening to it. And so of course, as a teenager, it's more attractive. And in Jacksonville, there was an all ages club that was like, had some of the most iconic alternative. And indie rock and punk bands came through town and was like a dance club. And I was thinking a lot about those years. So playing music from that time and trying to feel again, like the fan that I used to be, you know, I'm 45 now and I don't know much about new music, but I just remember the feeling of hearing something new and how excited it can make you. And you know, there's a section when I'm writing from Sonny's point of view, the journalist character, and that's pretty much taken from my real life and that's the response that she has in her body when she hears something that she really loves. And it's almost like a fear response, like chills and like almost feeling like you want to run out of the room. You know, like I started listening to music that made me feel like that.

Traci Thomas 29:40

I love that I love it. You shouldn't have if you don't already a Spotify playlist, but people to the show notes. I was gonna say yeah, that would be great. Yeah. I just Yeah. Okay, I love the book. We're gonna hop off that we're gonna do this thing we do called Ask The Stacks. Someone wrote in requesting book recommendations and we're gonna give them some tips. Okay, so here's what they said. Briana P: I read a lot and across genres but typically only 25% of my reads are nonfiction. I struggle to prioritize nonfiction and you as an me Tracy give great nonfiction recommendations and I'm looking for more. I love it when a nonfiction read draws me in and teaches me something that I really need to know. But I can get bogged down in very thick nonfiction reads memoir can be hit or miss. Nonfiction reads that I've loved include The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson, Heavy by Kiese Laymon dare to lead by Brene Brown, Stamped by Jason Reynolds and Ibram Kendi Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zellner. And 21 things you may not know about the Indian Act by Bob Joseph. They said they're they're preemptively telling me not to recommend a book that they know I'm going to and they said I got empire of pain on my TBR given all the rains, but I'm wondering if there are other nonfiction reads out there I should pick up and prioritize. So Dawnie, I'll give her three recommendations and then you can give one or two or whatever you want. Okay, so Briana, I am giving you three different books that are sort of memoir free, but sort of not. The first one is called Tell Me More by Kelly Corrigan. If you've been listening to the show, you know, this is a book that I like secretly love. It's totally not my vibe necessarily. But Kelly core. It's like an advice book about sort of like the things we need to learn how to say, and it's tied up in sort of her grieving the loss of her father and one of her best friends. And I wept when I read this book, like a real loser on an airplane. And it's one of my favorite favorite books. And it's memoir II, but it's also sort of self helpy, but in like the perfect way. So that's my first one. My second one is another favorite. It's called the reckonings by Laci M. Johnson. It's a collection of essays all about justice. And the essays range from things like kind of tying together the death penalty and children with cancer, to environmental pollution, to oil spills to hurricane Harvey, and she talks about what Justice looks like and what justice means. And it's just fantastic writing so beautifully written and will really make you think a lot about sort of morality in an interesting and not preachy way. And then my last one is another memoir. It's called Memorial Drive by Natasha truth away and it's the story. It's very short. It's the story of Natasha, truth ways mother, who was murdered by her stepfather when Natasha was 19. Natasha has since gone on to become like the poet laureate, she like gave a poem at Obama's inauguration. She was like a big deal poetry person, but this is sort of a memoir that's all about this moment, moments in her life and domestic abuse, and it's just so beautifully written. And it's also very slim, which I appreciate when a book can be sort of heavy, like, as you can imagine a book about your mother's murder maybe. So those are my racks. Dawnie, what do you have?

Dawnie Walton 33:09

So I'm going to recommend a book that is beautiful. But also, if you don't mind, a little cathartic, crying had me boo, like big snotty tears, brother. I'm Dying by Edwidge Danticat, which is a family memoir. That is essentially it's a little bit about herself, but mainly about her uncle and her father and their relationship and what happens to their family when her uncle tries to get here from Haiti amid unrest there. And it also is also a book that makes you cry because it's so enraging. The suspicion with which her uncle, you know, it was viewed and all of that very beautiful book, beautiful writer. I also recommend A Little Devil in America by Hanif Abdurraqib, which is probably probably my favorite book.

Traci Thomas 34:11

It's my the year. It's my I think it's my favorite nonfiction of the year. It's incredible.

Dawnie Walton 34:16

Yeah, if you're into pop culture that has a personal bent, this is a collection of essays about everything from a Whitney Houston performance on the Soul Train Awards to oh my gosh, give me shelter, when to give me shelter, Mary Clayton, all those things, and Hanif so movingly, and brilliantly writes about how all these things had an effect on him. Personally, I loved that book. I had so many emotions, joy, and you know, when he moments he was writing about his mother and his grief over his mother, it just, it just took me out. I loved it.

Traci Thomas 34:59

Oh, I love that book so much. It's so beautiful. He was on the podcast. It was such a dream come. He's just such a special writer. Yeah. Okay. Briana, if you read any of these books, you have to let us know what you think how we did. Even if we failed. Don't tell Dawnie, if she failed, you can tell me but Dawnie is our guest here. So let's not be an asshole. It's time for Dawnie to answer the very important stacks questions. We always start here two books you love and one book you hate.

Dawnie Walton 37:08

Two books I love. Gosh. And I was trying to think how I could not mention The Warmth of Other Suns.

Traci Thomas 37:16

But that book is incredible.

Dawnie Walton 37:18

That book is probably my favorite book of the last I don't know. few decades. But you know, of course the story of the great migration. I learned so much from it, and it reads like fiction, and I am excited for the adaptation if that ever happens. I knew that was in the works. I also love I love thinking about you know when the author has like a hit book. And then there's other books that I actually kind of sometimes like better. So I was thinking about silver Sparrow by tayari Jones. Of course American marriage was her big Oprah book, but I just loved silver Sparrow it had everything for me it had like, juiciness and intimacy and bond between women and like all the complications of family and funny moments and sad moments. It just like hit on all levels. I love it. And a book I Yeah, what do you hate? Oh my god. I'm sure you've heard this before Heart of Darkness. No. Heart of Darkness is a book I hate. I hate it so much that I actually included it in Oakland. No little dig. Yeah, I've just it's just incredibly racist. I had to read it in high school and I wrote an essay for class about how racist it was. And my teacher couldn't do anything but like, give it an A.

Traci Thomas 38:51

What did he say?

Dawnie Walton 38:52

It's a terrible book.

Traci Thomas 38:54

I've never read it. I don't plan on it. Okay, what are you currently reading right now? And are you a person who can read multiple books at once?

Dawnie Walton 39:04

I am reading the days of Africa at via Sally Solomon. Good so far. I'm just at the very beginning of it. It's a book I've been looking forward to for a very long time since I read an excerpt online. I can't read more than one book at a time. I'm a very slow reader and I like to watch everything play out like a movie in my head. And that requires like real focus and immersion. So yeah, I you know, I can. The best I can do is read like magazines and like stuff online, but one book at a time.

Traci Thomas 39:40

You're like me, we call that a one book pony around here. That's totally my jam. But did you know that some people don't see books in their head when they're reading them? I didn't know that. I always assumed everyone imagined what they were reading.

Dawnie Walton 39:53

I don't know how you couldn't like I don't know.

Traci Thomas 39:58

I know. When I found this out. I was really That's the thing about this podcast. I've learned a lot of things that I just assumed everybody did. Apparently everybody doesn't do everything the exact way that I do it. I had no idea.

Dawnie Walton 40:10

I'm sorry for that.

Traci Thomas 40:11

I know. Sorry. Sorry for your loss. What are some books that you're looking forward to reading? They don't have to be new books. They can just be things that you're like, I can't wait to get to that. Yeah,

Dawnie Walton 40:20

I can't wait to get to Harlem shuffle Olson. Whitehead. I still have not read nickel boys. Oh my God, you have to reread. I know. I know. It's on my TBR too.

Traci Thomas 40:31

It's one of the best novels I've read. In a long time.

Dawnie Walton 40:34

Oh, my gosh, and it takes place in Florida, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I've got that one. Those two. Viola Davis has a memoir coming out.

Traci Thomas 40:46

Oh, really? Next year. I saw that as she like in like a pinkish color on the cover.

Dawnie Walton 40:51

I don't remember what the cover looks like. I Well, it's a given. She's gorgeous. I mean, dropped. Yeah, there's that. But high just think like she's gonna have so many amazing and jaw dropping stories. And can't wait to read that one. And then everyone's been teasing me with a new Hanya Yanagihara.

Traci Thomas 41:13

To Paradise. Yeah.

Dawnie Walton 41:16

I have feelings about A Little Life. But I will definitely read like other things that she writes.

Traci Thomas 41:22

Welcome to the I have feelings about a little life podcast, please share. I every time this book comes up, I share some of my feelings. I'm curious what yours are?

Dawnie Walton 41:30

Oh, well, I know, one of the things that you ask is a book that made you cry, and then a book that made you angry. And for me a little life was both of those things. Okay. It was like crying because I was sad. And then crying because I was angry and angry at myself for feelings add. My feeling is that I think there, it's beautifully written. And there are many beautiful, beautiful moments in that book. And some of the moments that I found most touching were the moments of pure love and kindness with the tude being adopted and all of that that relationship. I loved but I felt by the end, it was just like, over the top with Yeah, with the chat. Like, I wanted to throw it across the room where that one thing happens. I know. Yeah, I'm talking about I was just like, you know, there's a particular filmmaker whose movies, you know, I won't name who it is. But it's like, it was predictable, predictable, because it was like, if you think about the worst thing that could possibly happen, that's going to happen. Sure. And I felt like at a moment, it was less sort of showing, you know, the tragedy of this and more like experimentation, like how far can help our campus be punished?

Traci Thomas 42:55

Yeah. And I just like, yeah, I think I tell the story on the show before but in case I haven't, my friend Sam told me to read the book. And I was on vacation, and I get to the like, the you know, they're like, different sections. And one section is like, titled, like, the happy years or something, and I just text him I go, these aren't going to be no goddamn happy. Like, I was so mad. I was like, What a lie. Like, why are you fucking with me? I already know. Because it's like, sort of earlier in the book where you're like, not sure. Like, it hasn't gotten really sad yet. And I'm like, yeah, like this. This person is lying to me just to be manipulative. I hate you.

Dawnie Walton 43:30

Oh, my gosh. And it's that first half of the book. That's so gorgeous, and so beautiful. That makes you push through the end. Yeah. So it's like, I can't even really say if I like the book or not just because like I just have dueling feelings by the end.

Traci Thomas 43:46

I'm definitely curious about their new book coming out. I will I'm very curious to Paradise is certainly on my like, most intrigued about book list this year, for sure. How do you pick what you're going to read? Do you rely on reviews? suggestions from friends? Do you have like specific people who you're like, I know if they blurb the book or whatever that you trust?

Dawnie Walton 44:07

So I'm a sucker for a good synopsis. Okay, like the marketing copy totally works. So you know, what I would typically do I mean, especially before the pandemic was, I could just spend a very long time in a bookstore, and just pick up different things and read the back and then also reading the first page and seeing if it sucks me in. I'm a strong advocate and kind of a very compelling beginning. And so like those two things together, I'm a sucker.

Traci Thomas 44:43

Did you have any input in your marketing copy for your book?

Dawnie Walton 44:47

Yes, we went back and forth a couple times with it because it's very hard to it's a lot of plot. It's a lot of like, context and setup. So we went back and forth a couple times. I'm getting it right and giving the reader just enough information. So they kind of get the gist of, of what's in there.

Traci Thomas 45:09

Okay, that makes sense, because your book has good marketing copy, and a very good beginning.

Dawnie Walton 45:14

Thank you.

Traci Thomas 45:15

I mean, not not to talk about your book again, I said we would stop. But sorry, I have to say this. I love plot. I know people love like character development. I think a good novel has a great plot, and the characters develop as you go. I think if you have one or the other, it's not a good book. And I love that your book felt like it was driving towards something for so long. Like, I was like, let's go, let's go. And, like, I feel like usually, it's like a thriller will do that for me where I'm like, What's going to happen, but your book isn't a thriller. And I think that's really fucking cool that you were able to, like, drive us towards this thing and let these people unfold. It's just it has such good balance. And that first half is just like, holy shit. Oh, that's awesome. I'm really done. I'm really done. I'm really done. I think I can't be trusted. Okay, what is the last? Or what? What's a book that you love to recommend to people?

Dawnie Walton 46:14

So there's actually a couple. One is called Black Diamonds, Queens. So this is a nonfiction book. Anyone who loved Opal enough, I recommend this book. It is about the contributions of African American women to rock and roll specifically. So of course, there's a chapter on Tina Turner, but they're my favorite parts. There's a chapter about LaBelle. And there's a chapter called negotiating brown sugar, which is like very the Rolling Stone song, which is actually pretty. Um, I mean, Can we curse on here? It's a pretty fucked up song.

Traci Thomas 46:54

All I do is curse, don't worry.

Dawnie Walton 46:58

So that's one book that I absolutely love and recommend. And the second one is, should be on everyone's anticipated list for 2022. It's, you know, now that I'm a published author, one of the perks is that I get a lot of advance books from people and I have read one of my favorite books recently, it's called all this could be different by Sara. Thank them. Matthews comes out in summer of 22. And it is a really beautiful book about friendship, about money. And they're written about in ways that are completely uncynical. It's a group of people who make the same mistakes that you were I would make, but there's so much love between these characters. And so much support they show for each other. I loved it. And I can't wait for other people to read it.

Traci Thomas 47:58

Oh my god, I'm so excited. I hadn't heard of it, adding it to the list right now. Okay. How do you organize your books?

Dawnie Walton 48:05

So this kind of caused like a war in my house, because my husband is a creative director. And so when we moved in together, when I came back from graduate school, this was in 2018. His books were all arranged by color. And I am like, this looks pretty, but how do you find anything? Like all the fiction and nonfiction was mixed up together? Oh, what we did was, we put the fiction on one set of shelves, and that's arranged by author and that's like, basically, like, the majority of my books are fiction. And so when I'm looking for something, I can easily find it. And then the nonfiction on a different set of shelves are a little more hodgepodge, just a little bit more by color. So that was the compromise that we did.

Traci Thomas 48:59

I'm team color. I've organized by color, but I'm a visual person. Like I can tell you exactly where a book is in my house, because I know what color it is. And I know not everyone's like that. I've learned.

Dawnie Walton 49:11

I'm a little bit absent minded, weirdly. And so I can't remember like always what the colors are. And I remember the writers.

Traci Thomas 49:19

Yeah, yeah. See, I sometimes forget the author. I'm like, I know this book came in it feels like it was orange to me. And I'm like, I don't know the title. Like I just have like a sense. Okay. What is your ideal reading setup? Where are you? Snacks or beverages? What's the temperature? What's your accessory candle time of day kind of give us a vibe.

Dawnie Walton 49:40

So ever since I was a kid. Reading has been my bedtime ritual. So at night, that's when I'm reading mostly in bed at the end of my day. If I'm having to read something during the day, there's a little nook in my window in the front room of our house where we live. And I'll open the shutters and I'll have a cup of tea and kind of curl up in this arm chair.

What kind of tea?

Caffeinated for sure. Okay. Sometimes it's Earl Grey sometimes it's the vanilla chai that I have.

Traci Thomas 50:23

We could have a tea party. I love Gray. I love a chai love a black tea. Yeah, for sure. Important. There's a there's a small group of stocks guests that include you now and Crystal Hana Kim, who is also a tea drinker. So there's a small contingency of black a lot of like herbal tea drinkers, not friends. But the black tea black tea. Yeah, please. Welcome. Oh. Do you have a favorite bookstore?

Dawnie Walton 50:49

You know, I was thinking about this. I don't I love I love all bookstores. I mean, there are bookstores that I've wanted to go to that I haven't been to yet, especially during the pandemic Harriet's and Philadelphia. Yeah, I finally went to Baldwin and company in New Orleans. Oh, nice. Which was nice. A nice space, a nice community feel to it. But yeah, other than that, I mean, my neighborhood bookstore is green light. And in Brooklyn.

Traci Thomas 51:19

Yeah. Do you remember the last book you purchased?

Dawnie Walton 51:23

Oh, yeah, actually just went and picked some up today. So I'm gonna I'm short stories are my jam right now. Okay. So I just picked up how to wrestle of girl. I need a Blackburn. I picked up Friday black. Oh, yeah. Which I'm really excited to. We did it on there. Yeah, I'm getting into a little speculative love. So those are the last two I bought and I just put in an order for another collection. Gorilla, my love by Toni Cade. Bambara. who's a writer that I've not yet read mean, either.

Traci Thomas 52:00

Yeah, it's time. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. That's one of my ashamed I've never read. Yeah, people. Okay, you already told me the books that made you cry and angry. What's the last book that made you laugh?

Dawnie Walton 52:10

Rodham by Sittenfeld, I laugh at a lot of things like not just things that are like, Haha, funny, but also things that I think are clever, or that is rooted in something that I recognize. It's very familiar to me, but I haven't seen it written about in that particular way. Okay. And I felt like rotten was the ladder like there was some wild. So that's kind of an alternative history. And based off the idea if Hillary Rodham had never married Bill Clinton. And so it presents this kind of alternative history in which Jerry Brown becomes President of the United States for one term, and things like that, but I was just like, This is why like, but it was also kind of writing about real people in ways that were very accurate and thus very funny. So Trump does appear in the book and in a very accurate and horrifying and ridiculous way that I found interesting and humorous.

Traci Thomas 53:19

I love that. I've heard that some of the sexy scenes are cringe.

Dawnie Walton 53:24

There's a scene in a car and I won't say anymore.

Traci Thomas 53:27

Oh my god, I already feel sick. I do know that feeling like when you're watching someone on reality TV, we call it ETVF, Embarrassed TV Feeling in my group of friends. I have ETF right now for any sex scene with Hillary Clinton.

Dawnie Walton 53:42

Yeah, and Bill ality TV feeling because I watched way too many shows like that.

Traci Thomas 53:48

But yeah, it's such a horrible feeling and habit, like I used to get it so bad when American Idol was the thing. Oh, my God, just like the deep embarrassment of for others of like, why are you here? I still get it, you know, but that show was like a peak. Oh, God, I feel sick right now. Okay. Is there any book that you feel proud to have read?

Dawnie Walton 54:10

Yes. So I was such a little nerd as a kid. And I used to spend my summer days when my parents were at work at my grandparents house and my grandmother had, she would get sort of the Reader's Digest books. I don't know if you remember this, but she had this really thick book on her shelf and it didn't have a cover sleeve and I just wanted to read it because I wanted to read something that was like big and important feeling okay, and so I was like 12 years old and I was I read routes by Alex Haley. That summer. That was my project.

Traci Thomas 54:52

I love Yeah, I want I've never read it. I've seen the movie multiple times. I've never read it. You will want to know If I think I want to do it on this show, I think it would be a fun book to try on this podcast like to break.

Dawnie Walton 55:05

It's a big one.

Traci Thomas 55:06

Yeah I know it's a big one.

Dawnie Walton 55:07

Yeah, it reads beautifully. It reads. I mean, it's been a long time since I've read it. So I'm just like, hoping there's nothing like super problem.

Traci Thomas 55:16

Yeah.

Dawnie Walton 55:18

From what I remember, it was sort of my first nonfiction book that I haven't ever really, it's fiction. Well, yeah, well, it is. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like his kind of looking back and tracing back his family. He's just kind of a blend.

Traci Thomas 55:33

Yeah, like autobiographical fiction. Yeah, they call that? Yes. They just the New York Times just did their like 125, whatever, for like the last 125 years of New York Times books. And they included James Baldwin's review of routes. Oh, I didn't actually read it. Because I was like, I really need to read routes first. But I think I might have I saved that because I'm sorry.

Dawnie Walton 55:55

I wonder I read that. I wonder if he liked.

Traci Thomas 55:59

It seemed like he liked it. He was talking about, like, the first part was like how it's like this gift to America. And its centennial year, because it came out in 1976. So like that this was like some sort of like, moment for American history. And then I was like, I don't want to read this. I gotta wait. But I'm sure it's online.

Dawnie Walton 56:17

Okay, I didn't know. So that was my birth year. I don't 276 I didn't know routes came out that year.

Traci Thomas 56:23

Yeah. Well, at least the review came out who knows? Maybe, maybe they waited? Yeah, I think I don't know. i What do I know. I met LeVar Burton, when I was pregnant, and he touched my belly and he blessed my children. And honestly, I like to call him my children's godfather.

Dawnie Walton 56:35

Oh my gosh. So obviously, they're gonna be readers.

Traci Thomas 56:39

Yeah, I asked him, he, like did this whole blessing. It was very bizarre and amazing. And then I was like, at the end, he was like, you know, like, Listen to your mom and like, may the world protect you, blah, blah. And then I was like, Can you also just tell them to be into reading and he was like, also read.

Dawnie Walton 56:55

That is amazing.

Traci Thomas 56:58

Yeah, it was an iconic day for me. Anyways. Okay, I'm gonna ask you three more questions. And we'll be done. Because you brought up problematic What is your problematic favorite book?

Dawnie Walton 57:08

Well, so it's funny, I was just listening to who. So I was so excited when you did the podcast recently, I'm Waiting to Exhale, which is a book like one of those books that you steal from your mom when he finished reading it back in the 90s. But the what the train Macmillan that I remember really loving was disappearing acts, which your guests at the time recalled as not being very feminist book. But, you know, I was sort of young and kind of like, into juicy stuff, and like sexy stuff. Oh, yeah. I remember having some fondness for that book. And for books that had, you know, of course, like black characters, and were really juicy and commercial and like, like all of that I, I enjoyed it at the time.

Traci Thomas 57:59

I love that. Okay, what was a favorite book that was assigned to you in school?

Dawnie Walton 58:04

Probably Their Eyes Were Watching God, which is the first book by a black author that I was ever assigned to read in school. And it was meaningful, because I'm from North Florida, as historian Neale Hurston, as is Janie, the character in the book. And, you know, I always talk about this book that sort of made me aware of the fact that as far as long as I can remember, you know, we didn't have this word back then. But code switching, you know, because I went to predominantly white schools, but around my family, I talked different and Right, right. I remember reading that book, we were assigned a few chapters every night to read and then we would discuss it in class. And my white classmates were just complaining and baffled by the dialogue in the book, because they didn't seem to understand it, or they claimed not to understand it. And I just remember, like, What do you mean you don't understand. And then also seeing how Zora Neale Hurston herself was code switching in the text, like between the dialogue and the very highly, you know, quote, unquote, literary narration. And I just, I just love the book. I loved the characters. I loved the the feeling of community that it has in some in some parts.

Traci Thomas 59:33

Yeah. Okay. Last one, I stole this from the New York Times. If you could require the President of the United States to read one book, what would it be?

Dawnie Walton 59:42

Um, I mean, I think I think a book like Between the World and Me is such a slim book, but a powerful book. Yeah. And kind of gets into a mindset. At of how black Americans are feeling, how we're thinking about our children, how we worry for our children, what kind of world we want for our children in a way that is not especially academic, but very emotional. So I'll say that.

Traci Thomas 1:00:17

I think that's a great one. You're not the first to say that one. I think that's like, because it's such a readable book. Okay, that's concludes our episode for today. But two things one, Dawnie will be back at the end of the month for our you know, annual Toni Morrison read. We're doing Song of Solomon. Very excited. Wait, yeah, so that will be November 24. There will be spoilers. So read the frickin book people don't ask me. And more importantly, for now, go get Danny's book. I've linked to it in the show notes. It's called the final revival of Opal and nev you can get it anywhere books are sold. It is out there in the world. It came out much earlier this year. So it exists. It is a fantastic book for you to read. I don't know are you in the mood for a holiday gift for someone you know who loves a good story? Maybe an elderly relative or older relative who was alive and rocking out in the 70s Maybe someone younger who loves learning about history. It's for everyone. It's so good. I feel competent recommending it basically to like all types of humans, which is rare for me. I just feel like it it has it has, you know pace. It has characters. It has violence. It has romance like it has all the things so go get that book wherever you get your books. I've linked to all of Dawnie socials in the in the show notes you can find Dawnie all those places. Dawnie, thank you so much for being here.

Dawnie Walton 1:01:36

Traci, this was a joy. Thank you for having me.

Traci Thomas 1:01:40

Everyone else. We will see you in the stacks. All right, y'all. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you to Dawnie for being my guest. Remember The Stacks book club pick for November is Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison. We will be discussing the book on Wednesday, November 24 With Dawnie Walton. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks to join The Stacks Pack. Make sure you're subscribed to The Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave a rating and a review. For more from The Stacks follow us on social media at thestackspod on Instagram, Threads and TikTok and at thestackspod_ on Twitter and you can check out my website at thestackspodcast.com. This episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Megan Caballero
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