Ep. 357 We Love the Tea with Ira Madison III

Written By Megan Caballero

This week, writer and host of the podcast Keep It!, Ira Madison III joins us to discuss his essay collection, Pure Innocent Fun. We talk about nostalgia, how the book has changed Ira’s identity as a writer, and why he considers literature to be the ultimate form of gossip.

The Stacks Book Club pick for February is Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov. We will discuss the book on February 26th with Ira Madison III returning as our guest.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Ira Madison III 0:00

I always sort of felt like an imposter writer. I felt like I wasn't really writing, you know, in the way that I had always envisioned, you know, which is a weird thing to say, That's wild, yeah, because I've had a career writing, but I don't know, I feel like a real writer now, having finished this,

Traci Thomas 0:27

welcome to the stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today I am joined by one of my favorite podcasters and now a debut author, Ira Madison III. Ira is a writer, cultural critic and co host of the podcast, keep it, which is hilarious if you've never listened. And now he's got a book of essays. It's called Pure innocent fun, and it explores how pop culture shapes our identities and reflects the world around us today, Ira talk about all the books that shaped him, plus we talk about nostalgia, audience and writing about people from your real life. Our book club pick for February is Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov and Ira will be back on Wednesday, February 26 to discuss the book with me, so be sure you read along and tune in. Quick reminder, everything we talk about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. If you love this podcast and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks and join the stacks. Pack or check out my newsletter at Traci Thomas, dot sub stack.com. I could not make the show without the support of folks like you, so check it out to get bonus content and to make sure this show happens every single week. Now it's time for a quick shout out to some of our newest members of the stacks back Esther, Rachel pelman, Serafino, Corey Brown, Alicia, Catherine chirano, Sarah Taylor, Maureen st Cyre Lindsay, Scott Shana Aya doker, Marsha McCullough, Emily craban, Jackie, Brea grant, Kristen M and Denise Pedroza, thank you all so much, and thank you to the entire stacks pack. All right, now it's time for my conversation with Ira Madison, the third

All right, everybody, I'm so excited. I'm joined today by one of my favorite podcasters and now a brand new debut author. His name is Ira Madison III. Ira, welcome to the stacks.

Ira Madison III 2:26

Hi. I'm so excited to finally be here. I know I

Traci Thomas 2:30

feel like I got to do keep it years ago, and I finally get to, like, return the favor of having you on for people who don't know, Ira is the host of keep it, which has been one of my favorite podcast I list started listening on day one. Oh, wow. Day one. Og OG fan and IRA's new book is called pure, innocent fun. It's a collection of memoir, memoir and essays. Or, do you think it's a memoir and essays? Or do you say it's just essays? I wasn't,

Ira Madison III 2:58

you know, I feel like it has the title. I love that it has, like, essays at the top, you know, but it's so serious both. It's, I know, right? But it's, you know, it's both. I feel like it follows a natural progression, you know, like it feels like you're reading like an art so I would say memoir on essays is fits, Okay,

Traci Thomas 3:18

before we dive into the book, can you just tell folks, like, a little bit about yourself? I sort of made a little professional bio, but give us a little who's IRA? What's the deal?

Ira Madison III 3:28

Well, you know, I'm a writer, and I live in New York City, and I used to write for, you know, GQ, New York Magazine, that kind of stuff. And when I was looking to write a book, it was something that I'd always sort of wanted to do, and honestly, I dedicate the book to my grandmother, who has always reminded me, no matter what I've done, by the way, like writing for TV, writing for anything else, it's always been, well, you know, where's that book that you always wanted to write when you were a kid? And I thought I was gonna write, you know, a goose bump book or something. So that's what I want. That's what I used to write as a kid, I wrote my own like little short horror stories. I was obsessed with those books. And then I think when I was, you know, trying to come up with a book, my agent, Aaron, is a very lovely and had also been a person being like, when are you running a boat girl, you know? And I think really it was just, why don't I turn the writing that I already do regularly into something longer and something a bit more personal than, you know, just one off writing for a website on pop culture, like of the day, you know, write, write about something that feels more permanent and something you can really dig into culture that already exists.

Traci Thomas 4:47

Yeah. I mean, so one of the things I really appreciate about the book is how you talked about your relationship to reading as you like as a kid, I was very clear that, you know, you like books, you like reading. And I'm thinking about. About, sort of as I was reading it, you talk so much about nostalgia, and like, our relationship to these pieces of art, or like these pieces of culture that we loved as like that we that we say that we love, but like, maybe we haven't revisited. And you talk about, sort of like only remembering the good parts. And then I started, like, thinking about things that I love. And I was like, Ooh, I should stop talking about some of these things, because I haven't revisited them in a while. But I know you revisited a lot of things in the book. So was there any pop culture that you went back to? And you were like, I do not, I cannot say that I love this anymore.

Ira Madison III 5:36

Well, I mean, I think I say the Power Rangers, which I love. You know, the movie is so great, but the TV show itself is, it's really a hard watch. It's not a lot of the kids shows. You know, I feel like are things that obviously were meant to entertain kids, and you revisit some of them, and you wonder how your parents put up with it, I think, like, but you remember, like, something like all that for Nickelodeon, I don't even think I really write about that in here, but, you know, I re watched a few episodes, and I just kept having flashbacks to my great grandmother, like, hating the show because she was just like, she was just like, all they're Doing is yelling, you know? And I remember that, like, watching it, I was, like, the baseline for, like, Nickelodeon, and like kids shows of the 90s was really just loud, you know, it was, it was loud, and it was, like, not even necessarily a joke that's funny. It's just, you just have to deliver it very loud, you know.

Traci Thomas 6:39

Yeah, that's so true. My God, all that. I also, I have to be honest, I did not love all that as a kid. I recognized pretty early on that, like, Lori Beth denberg was the star, and like, was the true talent, and that a lot of it was just mess all around,

Ira Madison III 6:55

like she was like, dry wit, you know, she wasn't like screaming.

Traci Thomas 6:59

She was like, doing something. I was like, that that child is, I mean, I was also a child, but I was like, Oh, that girl's, like, smarter than me, like, she's figured out how to be funny in a different way. Ira, you know, we both went to NYU. Oh, my God, when you mentioned cozy diner, I was like, shout out. And then I was like, Wait, it's only open until 10.

Ira Madison III 7:20

It is now.

Traci Thomas 7:25

This was, like the diner right across from tissue. We were both tissues, and it was like, where everybody went after, like, late night rehearsal, or, like, if you were working on something late, or if you were there super early and you needed, like, to get breakfast after something before the next thing. And it was just like diner food. It's not particularly good, but it's like, quintessential NYU Tish student restaurant, yeah, and he used to open 24 hours, right? Yeah, yeah. No, I was there. I think, well, I was there. I graduated in 2008 Okay, are we there at the same time? We

Ira Madison III 7:55

know I started in 2009 grad school there, got it, and you did the playwriting? Yeah? Playwriting, Dramatic Writing, so I did playwriting and TV writing. Yeah, I was on the seventh floor.

Traci Thomas 8:07

Okay, how about the fact that I thought your actual introduction was written by actual Chuck closterman? Oh, my God. Okay, when you get the book, you have to look but it's like, the way that it's written is it says, like, all, you know, the table of contents is all the titles. But then it says introduction, colon, Chuck Klosterman. So I was like, oh, Chuck Klosterman wrote the introduction. Yes,

Ira Madison III 8:33

okay. So we changed it for Oh, for the final. We changed it for the final, and now it is now it is on Chuck Kloster, did other

Traci Thomas 8:44

people think that

Ira Madison III 8:48

when I put out the list of essays, like the table of contents on Instagram, was people thought that? And I was like, You know what, if they're gonna pre order, like, they're gonna get

Traci Thomas 8:59

it, I got, like, halfway into it, and I was like, Chuck didn't write this. I was like, I've been, I've been bamboozled. Okay, I'm always so curious about this with memoir, with memoir writing, and this is sort of, you know, you write, you write some memoir, but you do write about other people in your life, in here, and I'm wondering how you were thinking about approaching that. Were you worried that people would find out that you had written about them? How much were you wanting to talk about them, not family, but like, there's some people in high school that you sort of call that you talk about. So I just curious about that,

Ira Madison III 9:35

you know, I, first thing I did was I just wrote it all out with everyone's names, you know? And then I went back and changed names. Some people's names are actually the same because they are friends of mine, and I let them know that they would be in the book. And I think most of them didn't care, you know. I think most of them have known me for long enough they're like, who can't be worse than what you wrote in your Live Journal in high school? Cool, you know, no, but no. The approaching, it was just very much, to be honest, when I was writing it, in no way do I think, like anyone from high school is like, ever even gonna see this anyway, you know. But

Traci Thomas 10:17

you know, they will if you write about them, yeah, you

Ira Madison III 10:20

know, but it's like, I feel like to the I feel like the steps you need to get to for them to get it, you know, like, they'd have to pick up the book, they have to read it. They'd have to, like, parse, like, the actual story, if it's about them, since I changed names, etc, you know, like, I think if someone finds it, then the book's doing well, and then I'll deal with it when I get there. But, you know, I don't know if random person from middle school or high school is even gonna be like reading this book, you know. Do

Traci Thomas 10:48

you ever think about what would happen if you were in someone else's memoir, like, if you were the person? You

Ira Madison III 10:54

know? I think everyone is it plays different roles in people's lives, you know. So I'd be excited to see. It's not exciting. I'd be anxious to see. You know how I came off to someone else in high school?

Traci Thomas 11:05

Yeah, I sometimes am like, it would be awesome, and sometimes I'm like, I was a monster.

Ira Madison III 11:10

Yeah, luckily, not that many writers from my high school experience, yeah, to be honest, yet that's true. Just

Traci Thomas 11:18

wait. Just wait. So everyone's got one book at them. Yeah, I'm just biding my time till I have to have someone on from high school. And then they're like, you know, you are the person, the villain in this book. And I'm like, Oh, well, you're off the show. How about the difference between writing this, like, long form thing? How was that for you? Because you know, we know you as obviously a podcaster, but also from like MTV News and Buzzfeed, when you were writing a lot of short form stuff. So how did this compare for you? What's

Ira Madison III 11:47

the process? You know, I'm used to, like I said, writing things that feel, you know, much more ephemeral. You know, they feel like very quick short bursts on, like a hot take, you know, something on a recent TV show, a movie, etc, something happening in pop culture. And for those sites, I had to learn how to write very quickly, you know. And for this, I was taking my time, you know. And it was writing real. It was, it was a much harder process. You know, it was like, I first sort of approached one of the first essays as just sort of like trying to write something longer than I had before. And I was like, Okay, you're actually gonna have to maybe outline some of these essays. And that's eventually what I did, you know, outlining them because I'm just going, you know, without the outline works for something shorter, but it didn't really work for this book. You know, I was actually shocked at how much harder it was to write a longer essay. Yeah, it just wasn't a muscle that I had exercised yet. But now, now it's something I enjoy. You

Traci Thomas 12:56

like it? You did a regular book?

Ira Madison III 12:58

Yeah? Absolutely. A goosebumps. Yeah, I mean, another essay collection, a fictional, fiction. I'm working on an idea for a novel. So we'll see. I've, I've fallen like, in love with, like, writing books now. So, yeah, how does it

Traci Thomas 13:17

change your relationship to yourself? Like writing this book, I think

Ira Madison III 13:21

it changes my relationship to myself with I'll step outside that and say like, it's changed my relationship. Not changed relationship so much, but I feel like some friends who have read it so far, you know, have been like, um, they've seen a different side of me. Or they feel like I get like, the three dimensional of you now, you know, or I guess, the fourth dimension of me now, you know, it's, um, it's been very nice, you know, to see people respond to it well, like in my life. So I think that is been a thing that's changed. And I think for me, I'm just very happy to have, yeah, felt comfortable like opening up or just being vulnerable as a writer, you know, as an artist, I think that, um, that's sort of what real, like art and work takes, you know, and I think that a lot of the work that I've had to do, television writing for other people's shows, etc, hasn't really necessarily required that. And it's not to say that I hate that kind of writing, because I loved it, you know, I love television. I loved being in that world, being in a writers room, you know. But I feel like I always sort of felt like an imposter writer, you know. I felt like I wasn't really writing, you know, in the way that I had always envisioned, you know,

Traci Thomas 14:43

because it was like someone else's story, someone

Ira Madison III 14:45

else's story. And I don't think that I really was that, yeah, you're just trying to write something that works for other people, you know, I don't think I was really saw myself as a writer, to be honest, until this book, we. Just a weird thing to say that's wild, yeah, because I've had a career writing, but I don't know I feel like a real writer now, having finished this,

Traci Thomas 15:10

yeah, I mean, I sort of, I sort of feel like that makes sense a little bit. But also I'm like, Ira, yeah,

you're right.

Like, I think I used to run, and I never would say I was a runner, and then I finally ran a marathon, and then I was like, Okay, well, I guess I'm a runner. Like, I guess I sort of have to own this.

Ira Madison III 15:32

But like, the book, you know, like, the book is a marathon, yeah,

Traci Thomas 15:36

no, I do understand that where it's like, yeah, I run, or like, yeah, I write, but I'm not like a writer, like, you know. But then I feel like, when you write a book, you sort of like, you sort of can't be like, I'm not a writer. Even if you want to feel that way, you sort of can't be like, people are like, I'm holding your book like you're a writer.

Ira Madison III 15:53

Not to imposter syndrome, you know, too much. But I just feel like, because I'd have the podcast for so long, too, and I stopped writing so much for other outlets, whenever people would ask me, oh, look, you write, you know, it's, um, it'd be hard to give them point to something, you know, right? And I feel like now I have a project that feels like me. Yeah, it is me, and it's nice to be able to point to that. And so, yeah, that's what I mean. You know, not to knock my other writing, but you know, I really feel like one now, I get

Traci Thomas 16:25

it. I want to ask you, I guess, about sort of your relationship to audience, because I think, you know, you do all these different this, all this different stuff, you know, like TV writing, this book, the BuzzFeed, MTV News, and then the podcast and sort of each of those things have a different lag time between when you do it and when the audience gets to it. And so I'm wondering what that's like, because I know someone who does a week as someone who does a weekly podcast, even though I don't always hear from my audience about every single moment of every single episode, I get some pretty instantaneous feedback, like, a week later, right? Like I record it, and then in a week I hear about it, and that feels really fast, whereas, like, if you're writing a book, it's years and years of work before you get really any audience feedback. Like you might get feedback from people you know and love and even, like, as a playwright, or like, if you're doing that sort of stuff, it's like you're in the theater and you get to hear people respond to it as it's happening. So I'm wondering, like, sort of, what if there's one that you prefer, or if there's something that's like, interesting to you about the different lag times between creating and engaging with audience? Yeah.

Ira Madison III 17:31

I mean, listen, we do. We record our podcast too, like YouTube. So if I want to see what people think, I can go right to the comments. You know, luckily, actually, the YouTube comments on keep it are like, very lovely. Honestly, I feel like the people who are going there week to week to watch the show, like you're sitting there and watching it, they're generally like people who have something like nice to say, the audience for this. It's so that's something I haven't wrapped my head around yet, you know, because

Traci Thomas 18:03

we're recording this before the book comes out. Yes, I

Ira Madison III 18:06

have it like, you know. And even when the book comes out, people are gonna have to have time to read it, yeah, you know. So, yeah, that is, well, when you

Traci Thomas 18:15

come back for Lolita discussion, you'll be able to tell me a little bit. We'll, we'll circle back to audience reaction, because I'm just

Ira Madison III 18:22

so fast, even that though, you know, I think that we've never really toured, keep it, you know, yeah, no, we haven't. Yeah, we've done, like, some live shows in LA, but we haven't really toured it. And we're doing a live show for the tour in Boston, and I have, like, these other tour dates, and it's, um, I think that is what I'm interested in, too. Like, not so much, even the audience reaction, because I feel like a certain point you just got to go with God, like it's out there, you know. But I'm interested in the audience of who is, who is, like, paying for a ticket, like, who is, who is buying a book, who is traveling to the bookstore or the event space to see me and listen to me read, you know, I think that is what I'm really excited to see. Yeah, and whether or not they love it or don't like it or have problems with it, you know, if they're still along with me for the ride, then I'm okay with that.

Traci Thomas 19:22

I love it. Okay? One more thing I want to talk about, about the book, and then we'll transition to your reading life. You talk about literature as gossip in this book, and I love it. I love it. You're like speaking to my heart, because there's only two things I love in this world, books and gossip, and not in that it's gossip. First, like all I love is it's gossip. I love it. And I know you love a messy book, because when I asked you to send over book recommendations, you literally sent over like the messiest books, plus Anthony Bourdain, who is sort of a messy bitch, messy in kitchen, confidential, but I cannot read that book. Again. So I want to when did that idea of like literature as gossip come to you, and what is your relationship to gossip?

Ira Madison III 20:07

I mean, we love the gossip. We love the tea. Honestly, my group text that I always share the tea with, by the way, the in my acknowledgements, I was, it was so hard for me to name, just like friends, you know, who've been involved in my life. But I was, like, I named four important groups in my life, and one of them in particular, you know, it's, um, I love them because, like, like a weekend, or like a morning, will start off with someone sending off a voice note, and they're like, Girl, I got the tea. And I think that some, you know, that's bonds, friends, you know, you know, gossip, the communicating. So I love it, you know. And we always love starting off, like a chat with, like, what we call, like the white mess too, of like people that we know in New York. And we're like, you know, what these girls up to this week? So that's fun. And I think books as gossip, like what I was drawn to with reading, like, yes, like, it's nice to read a beautiful work of literature, right? But it's also nice to read, you know, something that feels like it's about someone's life. You know, like romantic love, you know, like giving you that, like secret history. You know, less than 01, of my favorite books. You know, those books are books that feel like they are. I mean, they literally are, you know, like Brady, so now this is like John is hard to life. You know, they're telling versions of their life and the people around them. Jane, Austin, F Scott, Fitzgerald, you know, that is the kind of writing that I was drawn to that feels like it is alive in a way, feels like it is a record of the time that it was written.

Traci Thomas 22:11

Yeah, yeah. Have you ever read Dan Zenna? I have not. You have to read new people. I know you would love it, because it is okay, it, it, it's like the main character, her name is Maria. I think about her at least once a week. I read the book in 2019 I still am curious if Maria is where we left her at the end of the book. Like I just, I'm like, Maria, are you there? Are you still there? What's going on? Girl? It is so good. It's super short, and it's almost like a fever dream. The pacing, it's like, it reads like a thriller, but it's just about this woman's life, but it's, like, so intense, and she's such a fucking nut job that you're just like, she's like, anyways, it's so good. I think those

Ira Madison III 22:49

are the kind of books, you know, I feel like, obviously, there's a you can have a book that comes to, like, a beautiful conclusion where, you know, you know, like that, like that, like, the end of, like, a Color Purple, or something, you know, like, like, it comes like, it's a beautiful life story comes to the conclusion, and you're satisfied at the end, right? But I also, I just love a book where it's, yeah, it feels like part of that person's life, and when it's over, you're all, you're not like, you're begging for the sequel, but you kind of are, because you're like, what tomorrow? Yeah, what did you do tomorrow

Traci Thomas 23:25

to get out of this? Babe? Yeah, no, I think you would love it. I think you'd love dancing in general. She's just so funny. But I think new people is like, for sure for you. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll be right back. Okay, we're back. And before we talk about your books, we always do this. It's called Ask the stacks. Someone has written in asking for a book recommendation. So I'm gonna read the letter. You're gonna give them at least one recommendation, and we'll get started. This one comes from Rwanda. She says, Hello, Traci and guest, I need book suggestions for my mom. She has not made a lot of time for reading in the last 10 to 15 years, but she always enjoys reading when she actually does finish a book. She has set a goal to read four books in 2025 one per quarter, and I'm helping her with recommendations. A few books that she's enjoyed in recent years are Lisa C's Shanghai girls and Snow Flower in the secret fan and Eric Larson's Devil in the White City. I remember her always reading Regency romances when I was a kid. She also loves watching PBS masterpiece shows. I'm thinking narrative nonfiction that isn't too challenging and plotty, immersive historical fiction would be the way to go, too. But I'm very open to suggestions. Okay, okay, do you want me to go first? Or do you already have something? It looks like you already have an idea. Well,

Ira Madison III 24:47

I mean, she said Shanghai girls, and I don't know if this would be like to this. I mean, this is so I've, you know, but I was gonna suggest free food for millionaires by Min Jin Lee, yeah, you know, because people always. Go to Pachinko, but I've read this so I haven't, actually haven't

Traci Thomas 25:05

read Pachinko idea, so I couldn't get into it. I love the show. You

Ira Madison III 25:10

did. Okay, yeah. So I was like, I'm gonna stick. I'm gonna stick with the show. Free food for millionaires is fun. Okay? And Eric Larson, hearing Devil in the White City. That is, I write about borders in my book, yeah, like working on the one in Chicago. So that was at the height of Devil in the White City. We had a huge display for that book in the front like and people were constantly coming in. I've read that book twice. I love it. And I would also just suggest, like, maybe some other Eric Larson, because I was recently, I was thinking about devil and white city again, recently over Thanksgiving, because one of my friends was reading, he was reading one of his new books. I think it is London in the vial. Yes, he was reading that book. And so I was like, Oh, I haven't thought about Eric Larson in a minute. And I

Traci Thomas 26:09

haven't Eric Larson story. I was at a festival in Mississippi, and we were like, everybody stays at the Westin. It's the Mississippi book festival. We all stay at the Westin and, you know, you check in or whatever. And I was there sort of early, and I get in the elevator to go up to my room, and this, like, white, older white man gets in, and I'm like, and I'm like, Oh, are you here for the festival? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh my god, I think that's Eric Larson. Oh my god, I think that's Eric Larson. And I was like, and he was like, I was like, Oh, I'm Traci Thomas, nice meeting. He was like, Oh, I'm Eric Larson. And then I go, Oh my God, I'm such a fan of yours. And I like, totally fan girl, like, all over him. I'm like, I just got back from Germany, and I was thinking about your book, because he wrote that book about all about, like, Germany, and it's called in the garden of beasts. And I was like, I was thinking about you the whole time I was in Germany. And he was like, wow, that, yeah, it's such was such a crazy story. And I think he was like, not expecting, like me to be like, I love your work. And he was just like, going up to his room at like, two and afternoon. But I was like, I'm such a fan, and I don't really talk about him on this podcast, because I read a lot of his stuff before I ever started the show, so it just doesn't come up naturally. But I was so geeked. I got it back in my room, and I was like, called my brother. I was like, oh my god, I just met Eric. It's like, so like a real celebrity.

Ira Madison III 27:30

And one last one just came to me, if your mom loves Devil in the White City. Actually, I was thinking, because I've just I watched this T the TV series adaptation with Andrew Garfield recently. John Krakauer is under the banner of heaven. So

Traci Thomas 27:44

good. John kraka is my A one. He's my real baby. Laugh. We

Ira Madison III 27:49

read, yes, we read into thin air in high school. Me too, that I feel like we all did like that era, like everyone was reading that book. I was hooked, like I went to the store and then found under the banner of heaven. It's so good that is about it's about murder. It's about the creation of like Church of Latter Day Saints. I think that is, if your mom loved Devil in the White City, she is going to love under the banner of heaven. Do you have you

Traci Thomas 28:14

ever read Patrick? No, okay, he wrote. Say nothing. You know, that's like the show now. Yeah, I always joke I'm like Jon Krakauer walked so Patrick Radden Kee could run like they're like his Like father, like he burned this, like other investigative journalist who does the same thing. But yes, I know

Ira Madison III 28:33

the show about the troubles. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, yes, yes. I've been meaning to watch it, but first, you could

Traci Thomas 28:39

do it in either order on honestly, it's like they're equally good. Okay, Rwanda, here are my suggestions. So I went with 1000 Splendid sons by Khalid hosseni, which is like a mother daughter story, historical fiction. It's really beautiful. I read it with my mom. I remember buying it on Costco back when you like buying books at Costco. Another one I have is the library book by Susan Orlean. It's about the 1986 Central Library fire in Los Angeles, and it does sort of similar things to Devil in the White City, where it like, tells the story of the history, but it also tells, like, the history of LA and of library systems and all of that. And then my last one is sort of more of a wild card, but I was thinking about, like, regency era romance. And this isn't Regency, but Kindred by Octavia Butler, which sort of has this, like, like sci fi, but also there's like a sort of a love story at the center. And I think it, to me, it's the easiest Octavia Butler, like, as far as far as entry point, like, if you're gonna start with Octavia Butler, I think that's a really good place to start. It's a little on the darker side. It is about like slavery and a woman who is like, traveling back from the 1970s to Antebellum and I think it's really good. So Rwanda, if she reads any of those. Books, you have to report back to us if anybody else wants a book recommendation, read on air, email, ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com, okay, Ira, now it's really your turn to talk about the books you love. Two books you love, one book you hate. Okay?

Ira Madison III 30:14

Two books I love. Well, I want to think of something that's not something that I mentioned, like something that's not going to be like in the book. Because I, because I specifically talk about hating, not about the bike. I hate that book, and I go into length about hating that book. So let me start with something I like. First. You know what? I actually just re bought at three lies bookstore here in New York, near my apartment, I bought A Confederacy of Dunces. Oh, and that book was very seminal to me growing up, so I am rereading it so that I can see if I still love it.

Traci Thomas 30:58

Okay, okay, okay, what's another one you love? Another

Ira Madison III 31:02

one I love is Giovanni's Room. That's just like one of my favorite books when i less than zero. And Giovanni room are two books that and sex drugs and Coco plus by Chuck Klosterman, those are the three books that I reread the most. Okay, I'll probably reread. How often are you rereading? I will. I could take a break on sex drugs now, because I've done the book that was inspired by it, but I used to read that book like, like, at least once, twice a year, you know, just, like, just going to get myself in like, the mind of like, I knew that that was something that I wanted to do, you know, and Giovanni's Room, I probably read maybe, like, once every couple years, and I read less than zero, like, once A year, because it's easy. Less Than Zero, you can read that in a day.

Traci Thomas 31:45

Okay, yeah, well, I'm a slow reader. Are you a fast reader? It sounds like you're a

Ira Madison III 31:49

fast reader. I can be a slow reader, but that's a very fast read. Okay,

Traci Thomas 31:53

okay, and do you want to add a book you hate, or do you want to stay with the bike one?

Ira Madison III 31:58

You know what? I still just cannot get into The Catcher in the Rye. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 32:02

that's the most common answer for book you hate on this podcast, I hate it. Everybody hates and

Ira Madison III 32:07

I tried rereading it recently, too. And I did. I tried rereading it recently. I was at, I was at a bookstore, and I had, I had time to kill before I was going over to a friend's apartment. I'm like, I was early for once, imagine that. But He lives, He lives, like, right by his bookstore, Rizzoli in flatiron. Oh, yeah. So I was in Rizzoli, like, perusing the aisles, and I see catcher at the ride there. And I started just like, I was like, You know what? I didn't like it in high school, let me read it, and I start rereading it. And I really was like, whipping through like, chapters of it, and I was like, I'm sick of this book. And I put it back and I'm never gonna think about it

Traci Thomas 32:52

again. Hold on, I'm sick of you. Do you go to rolis often? I go

Ira Madison III 32:58

to rolis every now and again. I feel like I went there a bunch of times this year. I went

Traci Thomas 33:03

to three lives for the first time when I was just in New York. So I didn't, I never even heard of it. I was like, this is a lovely book, yeah. And they were very friendly. They knew everybody who walked in. They were like, Oh, we just got this for you. Oh, you would love I was like, I want you to be my neighborhood bookstore. No,

Ira Madison III 33:19

they're my neighborhood bookstore. And I don't, I, like, really hadn't gone that much because I was obsessed with McNally Jackson, but I went in, that's where I got Confederacy of Dunces. And, you know, I sent them a nice little email about my book. No, because, honestly, I went in, there were two people working behind the desk, and within like, a minute of like, me even going over to the aisles, like one of them had, like, one of them had, like, gotten from behind the desk. Was like, you know, like, Can I help you, like, looking for something? And I was like, I was like, Well, this is, this is very sweet. I usually, I don't like to interact with people shopping. But I was like, this is very this is very nice. Like, I felt very welcome there. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 33:57

I do. That's like, one of the things I love most about indie bookstores. I usually do like to be left alone everywhere else. Like, if I'm at a clothing store, I'm like, Why are you looking at me? Like, no, I don't need your help. Do I look like I don't know what Lulu Lemon leggings I want. I'm a woman on a mission, but when I go to when I go to a bookstore, I'm sort of like, do you want

Ira Madison III 34:14

to be friends? Yeah, I'm obsessed with three lives now. So yeah, they're great. They're great. Plus, as a writer, I feel like that isn't that like a it feels like very like a New York like, fantasy thing. Like you need, you need, like, the bookstore place who knows you and you know you pop in and something they can living out this fantasy world now. Like they point to someone, they're like, that's IRA, you know, who's over there? That's his book. Anyway, that's all I wanted in life

Traci Thomas 34:38

that, I mean, that is sort of a fantasy. It's gonna come true so soon for you, so exciting. Um, okay, what kind of how would you say, like, what kind of reader you are?

Ira Madison III 34:52

I'm an add reader. To be honest, I am. I'm a person who is usually reading, like, two, three books at once. I. I don't know

Traci Thomas 35:00

if always on the page, or do you do audio or Kindle, or I rarely

Ira Madison III 35:04

do audio, um, except for like, memoir, yeah, yeah. If it's like, a memoir or, like, if it were like, um, like, like, I would listen to this book and maybe read it like my own, you know. But like, you know, like, Barbara's like, Maria is, like, those, like, I love, like, listening to, like a celebrity memoir in audio Yeah, yeah. But I feel like, when I'm like, going around New York, you know, it's like, I don't know, I'd rather, like read stationary. It's kind of hard for me to, like, walk and, like listen to, like an audio book, you know, like, even when I'm listening to an audio book, like I do it I'm sitting at home. Or when I lived in LA like I would drive in my car and listen to it. Yes, I like, I feel like there's too much going on in New York to do anything besides listen to music on your headphones.

Traci Thomas 35:51

Yeah, I can do podcasts in New York, but not audio books. What's the last great book you read?

Ira Madison III 35:59

Oh, well, I'm not finished with it yet, but I'm like, it's on your head. I'm reading good girl.

Traci Thomas 36:07

You're reading good girl, yeah, I'm wearing the good girl hat. They finally sent me cute merch, one of the publishers, and I was like, Okay, I finally got a cute thing, yeah? Because they usually just send me, like, a sticker. And I'm like, I don't fucking want that. But this, like, Dad hat

Ira Madison III 36:22

ARIA ever I'm reading it because, I mean, I love techno music, like, like, I'm always at like, clubs here in New York, and so I'm, like, really loving this world that should create it here. And no, I this. I found out that girl, it was being published by an imprint of Random House where my book is so i Whenever I see, like, a new book that I want, and I found it from random house too, like, I just send my editor or the public is there an email? And I'm like, please send me that book. But, but with this one, specifically, I said, and I'm gonna need that hat. Did they set a hat? They sent the hat. They had sent one out at first, and then they were like, Oh, wait, we found the hat. So then they sent me another copy of the book with the hat, and I gave the first book they had sent to a friend who was really looking forward to reading it. But I was like, I need the hat. The

Traci Thomas 37:11

hat is really good. Some of the hats are stupid, but then, like, my husband has a lot of the hats that I don't want. I

Ira Madison III 37:16

don't have a hat. I'm like, my friends are like, where's the hat with the smiley face on. I know you should have a hat with a smiley face. Yeah, I'm mad, but it's all good. Well,

Traci Thomas 37:26

maybe they'll get I feel like you should. It should be maroon with the hot pink, yes. Like, I would love it.

Ira Madison III 37:34

From your ears to Random House, yeah,

Traci Thomas 37:37

okay, Random House. Test, test, yeah. Can you hear me? I know they don't listen to this podcast over there, though, so sorry if you're listening. Also buy an ad on this podcast.

Ira Madison III 37:50

I'll send them an email about that. Yeah, great, great, great. Um,

Traci Thomas 37:53

okay, how do you how do you decide what you're gonna read next, like, who are your trusted sources? What are trusted sources?

Ira Madison III 38:02

Uh, honestly, my trusted sources are friends. To be honest, I feel like my friends who read, uh, especially like the New York gay, New York gays who read. I feel like we all tend to have sort of like similar tastes in literature. So honestly, I see a friend's Instagram with a book, and I screenshot it, and I like add it to my list of things to read. You know, that's, that's how I've gotten a lot of my things. And then also, there's some people that I trust, specifically my friend Mikey Friedman, who runs on Page Break. Yes, I've gone on Page Break. One of the trial ones last year. I'm excited to go again. I'm doing his show stage, break like his live one soon. He's a very good friend, and so he always, um, gives me book recommendations too. So yes, and he knows what I like. So he'll be like, yeah, read this. I'm

Traci Thomas 38:56

dying for him to do one in California. I keep being like, Palm Springs would be really fun. He's talked about, I got to get back in his DMS about I was really in his ear last year because you introduced us online, hit it off, and then I was like, come on out. So maybe we need to do a stacks retreat or something.

Ira Madison III 39:14

Yeah, yeah. He's a person who like knows, knows me, knows what I like. So when he tells me you'd love this book, like I jump on it.

Traci Thomas 39:23

I love that. That's so important to have those kind of people. What's a book that you always find yourself recommending to people?

Ira Madison III 39:30

Always recommending, um, well, I jazz. Honestly, with Tony Morrison, I'm always recommending it to people. Or you

Traci Thomas 39:39

love jazz. We did it last year on the book, on the show as our book, because we do one Toni Morrison a year. And we did it last year, and I did not love it. I liked it. I liked it like I was into it. Why do you love jazz? I just,

Ira Madison III 39:54

I feel like the opening is just so strong. I don't,

Traci Thomas 39:59

it's the fur face. Perfect first page, perfect first paragraph, perfect first section. I mean, when I finished that, I literally went on Instagram and was like, you guys, you're the perfect opening of a book. I will give it that. It's an insanely good opening.

Ira Madison III 40:12

Other book that I always recommend too is, like, Giovanni's Room is one of my favorites, but I'm always recommending, actually, another country. I've still never read it. It's very good. It's, it's, it's a bit long, but it's, you know, if you're, if you're a person who maybe enjoyed the new Bob Dylan movie, like a complete unknown, you know, or you like, that era of maybe Greenwich Village, like, like 660s you know, like New York. That's what the book is, it's about artists in that era in New York, and it's a just like a, if that's a book that's messy, feels like gossip as like a account of its time. You

Traci Thomas 40:53

lost me at Bob Dylan, but you brought me back with gossip. Bob

Ira Madison III 40:57

Dylan, but I like Timothy Chalamet, so Okay,

Traci Thomas 41:01

well, I the only thing I like less than Bob Dylan is Timothy. I'm like, I cannot. He is a no for me. I cannot get into him. I was

Ira Madison III 41:10

doing it like him. I mean,

Traci Thomas 41:12

that's the problem. He needs to stop doing it like he's doing it and start doing it like other people, like I I'm just like, still deeply offended, speaking of nostalgia, of him pretending to be Lori and Little Women, when Christian Bale did it so well in the 90s, I'm just like, You guys think that these are the same,

Ira Madison III 41:33

okay? Little Women are the same, okay? Little Women,

Traci Thomas 41:37

90s. Little Women high Okay, I am not. I am not. I'm anti Greta as Little Women, aggressively anti. It is not good. Nobody lives up. Okay, sorry. Florence Pugh, I'm against all those people too. Everyone in it. They're like my least favorite actors now. Florence, pew, talentless. Hack,

Ira Madison III 41:54

wow, oh my God, these are these, are these? Are these takes these, yeah,

Traci Thomas 41:59

how about keep it to Greta Gerwig, Little Women. Okay, what about do you still read horror? Are you still like is that still a

Ira Madison III 42:10

genre you're into? Do actually still read horror? I like horror. You

Traci Thomas 42:14

do any favorites, any any horror. I know I'm scared of horror, so I'm always curious about people who do read it?

Ira Madison III 42:20

There's this book. This is a Stephen King novel, but he published it under a pseudonym, Richard Bachman in 1977 it's called rage. It is Oh, and they're making it into a movie. I don't think so, because this book is never going to be printed. Oh, again, it it was taken out of print actually, because it's about a school shooting. Oh, it's about someone who, like, it was about someone who, like, imagines like, they take a gun, they shoot their teacher, and they take their class hostage. And it was written in 1937 and they were actually like, when there were some school shooting, smatterings of school shootings. Like, not, you know, Columbine era or, like what we're used to now, but those, like, in the set late 70s, like early 80s, like a few of the school shooters, like, had that book and so Stephen King actually, like, had it taken out of circulation? I literally had to search for it, because if you try and find it to buy on eBay, it's like, yeah, I found a PDF of it online and read it, and it's

Traci Thomas 43:30

okay, send it, yeah. Is it good? It's

Ira Madison III 43:33

good, it's good. It's gripping. Is it long? No, it's not long. You know, it's one of his, like, 1000 No. One of those, like, it's one of those, like, like, like, Joe something like, like, one of those, like, small. It's one of those classic, like small, like the 70s that, like those books that I feel like, back in the day when people would have those, like, in their back pocket at school or something.

Traci Thomas 43:59

Okay, I love that. Okay, this is sort of our lightning round. What's the last book that made you laugh?

Ira Madison III 44:05

The last book that made me laugh was Simon Rich's glory days. Oh, I don't know that. Yeah, came out last year.

Traci Thomas 44:13

Oh, nice. What's the last book that made you cry? Slash, do you cry when you read books? I

Ira Madison III 44:19

don't know if I cry when I read books that much, but I was like getting emotional reading the dissolution of Haley mo Tech's marriage. I read no fault recently. Oh, I have that. You liked it. Yeah, I liked it. I love Haley. And that book sort of it got to me. So, yeah, okay,

Traci Thomas 44:39

what's the last book that made you angry?

Ira Madison III 44:44

Last book that made me angry the guest? What's the

Traci Thomas 44:54

last book where you felt like you learned a lot

Ira Madison III 44:58

land of milk and honey? Mean by Pam seasoning. Oh, okay,

Traci Thomas 45:01

no, um, I learned a lot about like,

Ira Madison III 45:05

food and like nature, yeah.

Traci Thomas 45:09

Do you do read? You read a lot of fiction? It sounds like an memoir. Do you read non fiction at all? I

Ira Madison III 45:15

like, need to get back in my non fiction bag. But my non fiction bag is usually like, like, I, one of my recent ones I read was The, what is the name of it? It was the Ebert and Roper book, opposable thumbs, how Cisco and Ebert changed movies. Yeah, that's funny. I read a lot of stuff like that. I

Traci Thomas 45:36

see I got it. What about a book that brings you joy?

Ira Madison III 45:42

No, okay, Jurassic Park,

Traci Thomas 45:45

the book. I've heard that's great. I never read the book or seen the movie. I know you write about the movie, the movie.

Ira Madison III 45:50

I love, love, love, love, but I remember like reading the book in high school, and I enjoyed it. Yeah.

Traci Thomas 45:56

What about a book you're embarrassed to have liked

Ira Madison III 46:02

The Da Vinci Code, all of them. I love, I love this.

Traci Thomas 46:09

Did you read conclave? No,

Ira Madison III 46:10

I didn't love the ending of the movie. And so now I'm like, oh, it's the same

Traci Thomas 46:15

in the book. Okay, yeah, it's a very faithful adaptation, but the book feels slightly more like melodramatic, okay, it's like

Ira Madison III 46:25

melodrama of the movie. And I, like, felt like the ending was just sort of like a thud, yeah,

Traci Thomas 46:30

the um, the book definitely is like, I felt like was a little campier than the movie. Like, I was sort of like, like, when I was reading the book. When I watched the movie, I was sort of like, oh, this is very serious, like they took a very serious approach to this. What about a book that you're embarrassed that you've never read?

Ira Madison III 46:53

I have not read. It is on my shelf to read, but I've, honestly, I've never read any

Traci Thomas 47:04

Edith Wharton, Oh, me neither. I'm gonna read the custom of the country.

Ira Madison III 47:08

Yes, you had suggested that I have it. I started it and then stopped for some reason, not because I didn't like it, like I was, I was taking it on a vacation, and I was reading it, and, like, ended up having to stop, because when, anyway, a friend recommended custom of the country to me, and I specifically love the Martin Scorsese film The Age of Innocence. And so I read like I have both of those books, and I plan to read them, but I have yet to read any edit for

Traci Thomas 47:37

I've never read her either, but I'm gonna read custom of the country in February 2025, it's on my list. It's happening. Okay, great, yeah. Do you have a favorite classic novel,

Ira Madison III 47:46

Dracula? Oh, I love Dracula. There was a period. There was a period where, I don't know if you remember this, there was a period on Tumblr where there was like, this Dracula Tumblr, where the book was, like, being like, Gen Z was reading it, because it was being published every day, like a different page every day for for like, yeah until it finished, and so that, like that, how it got back in the zeitgeist again, like people online, like, love Dracula. That's a great book. Wow.

Traci Thomas 48:16

I've heard Frankenstein is also amazing. I've actually never read Frankenstein, so I need to get into that either. But I've heard it's great. Okay, if you were going to be a high school English teacher, what is the book you would assign to your students?

Ira Madison III 48:32

Maybe Invisible Man, Ralph Ellison, mostly because I

Traci Thomas 48:36

also never read that. That's on my list for this year too. So it took me rereading

Ira Madison III 48:40

it to love it. I have, okay, I have this, like, hippie, sort of like a white teacher who was teaching us invisible man in high school, and it sort of turned me off the book, okay? And I feel like I would teach it differently. So, okay,

Traci Thomas 48:54

that's fair. That's fair. I forgot to ask you. This is so important, it's gotta be on the record. How do you like to read? Like, where's your ideal place? Are there snacks and beverages? Is there music?

Ira Madison III 49:06

I read? I read on my couch. Okay? My blue couch that I have in my living room. It's a very comfortable couch that I've had for almost no I've had it for like, 10 years now. Wow, I got it with my first job, like, first full time job ever, Buzzfeed, 10 years ago, and I've kept it. I think it's, I think it's gonna finally go when I, when I move again, like, it's gonna upgrade to, like, a bigger section or something. But I don't know I like, just sit there. I'm a person who likes to I'm either, like, sitting up, like, on the couch, like this, with my backup, describing it to people sitting up with my backup, or, like, I will lay on my back and sort of like, read, but like always, with the with the light coming in from the window, like, onto the book. Like, that's how I like to read, like, with a nice little blanket. You. Now I will say I will often fall asleep while reading like that too, because it's so comfortable, but that is my favorite way to read. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 50:09

do you have snacks and beverages that you like for reading? I mean,

Ira Madison III 50:13

I usually have my ginger ale. I'm a Canada dry ginger ale girl. Wow, always some ginger ale with me.

Traci Thomas 50:21

You're the first person to ever, I think, say ginger ale. Love ginger

Ira Madison III 50:26

ale. I don't know what it is about ginger ale, like I will sometimes you see me like with a drink, like at the bar, and I was it's sometimes just a crisp ginger ale. I love ginger ale. It's refreshing to me. I drink ginger ale instead of water, to be honest. Oh my god,

Traci Thomas 50:39

wow. Yeah. So you never have tummy aches,

Ira Madison III 50:43

yeah? I mean, I think it's from when I think it's from, you know, when you're sick and, like, your parents are, like, giving ginger. I'm like, I just love it.

Traci Thomas 50:54

Okay, last question, so sadly for all of us, I stole this question from the New York Times. I've been doing it on every episode for seven years. But well, that's not even the bad part. Here's the bad part. The question is, if you could require the current president of the United States to read one book, who would you want it to be? And the reason it's bad is because you are my first official guest back in the Trump administration, we got out of it when we started the show. We were in the Trump administration, and everybody, nobody wanted to answer the question. It was like, Can he read whatever and not Biden? I was like, Okay, we're getting some good answers again, and now I'm dreading having to do this fucking asshole again. So how about it?

Ira Madison III 51:39

Hop on Pop.

Ira Madison III 51:49

Maybe, like, maybe some rolled doll, sure, you know, like, like the BFG, I think I would be a good book. Great, yes, yes. Yes, learn some kindness from the big, Friendly Giant.

Traci Thomas 52:03

We love this. We love this. Okay, everybody. Ira will be back on February 26 we're gonna be discussing Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov. Have you read it before? I

Ira Madison III 52:18

have not read it before. Weirdly, I read invitation to a beheading a book of his, mostly because I think I was in high school, and I was like, I was feeling contrary, you know. So I was like, I'll read this as my first Novi cough book. It's

Traci Thomas 52:38

good. I never done it. Yeah,

Ira Madison III 52:40

seen the movie, though. Really. Though,

Traci Thomas 52:43

February is Valentine's day month, so I thought we'd

Ira Madison III 52:45

just do a casual love story, the most romantic story ever told. Yes, yes, totally.

Traci Thomas 52:50

So everybody, we're gonna read that book February 26 make sure you read with us, and we can talk about at the end of the month together, IRA's book as you're listening pure, innocent, fun essays is out in the world now. You can get it wherever you get your book. Ira reads the audio book, if that's more your speed. And Ira, thank you so much for being here. This was a match. You. Yeah, and everyone else, we will see you in the stacks.

All right, y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to Ira Madison III for joining the show. I'd also like to say a thank you to Vanessa de Jesus for helping to make this conversation possible. Don't forget the stacks book club pick for February is Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov, and Ira Madison will be back to discuss the book with us on Wednesday, February 26. if you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks andjoin the stacks pack and check out my substack at tracithomas.substack.com. Make sure you're subscribed to the stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, please, please, please leave us a rating and a review for more from the stacks. Follow us on social media @thestackspod on Instagram, threads and Tiktok, and @thestackspod_ on Twitter, and you can check out our website at thestackspodcast.com. This episode of the stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas, with production assistance from Megan Caballero. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight, and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

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Ep. 356 The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley — The Stacks Book Club (J Wortham)