Ep. 332 For the Black Boys with LaDarrion Williams

Written By Megan Caballero
Ep. 332 For the Black Boys with LaDarrion Williams.jpg

Today we’re joined by the multitalented LaDarrion Williams about his fantasy debut Blood at the Root, which re-imagines a magical academy as an HBCU. LaDarrion explains how being a playwright differs from being a novelist, how he has navigated criticism from readers, and why he wanted to write a Young Adult story for Black boys.

The Stacks Book Club pick for August is Master Slave Husband Wife by Ilyon Woo. We will discuss the book on August 28th with Jay Ellis.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Traci Thomas 0:00

Traci, welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today we are joined by LaDarrion Williams. He is a playwright, filmmaker, screenwriter and actor, and now he is also the debut author of the novel Blood at the Root. Blood at the Root is a YA fantasy story about a teen runaway who arrives at an HBCU for magical youths. The book is all about community, history, black culture, and it is as thrilling as it is innovative. Today, LaDarrion and I talk about how he came up with this story, why it was important to write it for young Black boys, and also how he's handled criticism, both as a playwright and now as an author. There are no spoilers on today's episode. Remember actor and author Jay Ellis will be back on The Stacks to discuss our August book club pick Master Slave Husband Wife, by Ilyon Woo. You can hear that episode on August 28th. Quick reminder, everything we talk about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. If you love this show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks and join the stacks pack for just $5 a month. You get to be part of the best bookish community around. You get to join us on Discord. Come to our monthly virtual book club meetups. You get a bonus episode each month, and you get to know that by joining the stacks pack, you make it possible for me to make this podcast every single week. Another fun perk of the stacks pack is that you get a shout out on this very podcast. And for those of you who want to support the show but maybe are less interested in an interactive community experience, you can go to Tracithomas.substack.com and subscribe to my newsletter. There you can check out everything I'm up to get my hot takes on books and pop culture. It goes right to your email inbox, and you don't have to interact with a single other human again. That's Tracithomas.substack.com, okay, that's it. Thank you. Now it's time for my conversation with LaDarrion Williams.

Okay, everybody, I'm really excited. I have a debut author as well as a playwright here on the podcast. Their book is called Blood at the Root. It is a YA magical fantasy HBCU, black boy-centric story. The author is LaDarrion Williams. LaDarrion, welcome to The Stacks.

LaDarrion Williams 2:50

All right. Thank you for having me.

Traci Thomas 2:51

I'm so excited to talk to you. Before we talk about the book, I'm just going to tell everybody our quick origin story. As many of you know, my favorite bookstore is Reparations Club here in LA, and I do a thing with them on independent bookstore day, where I go and I recommend books all day, and I just am, like, their guest bookseller. And when I was there, I just got in there for my shift, and this person walks in, this guy walks in, and he's like, kind of, you know, looking around, kind of being quiet, whatever. And then kind of comes over and is like, Hey, my name's LaDarrion Williams, and my book's coming out really soon. And we were all like, Oh, congratulations. Like, what's your book called? He was like, it's called Blood at the Root. And Jazzi, the team at rep Club was like, Oh my God. We have that in the back. We have the ARC in the back. So exciting. Oh my god. And I was like, I don't know about this, because I'm not really a YA fantasy girl at all. And you were like, telling me about the book, and I was like, Okay, well, let's just take a picture, because this sounds like this might be a thing. And now here we are talking about your book. Your book has been so successful so far, I saw you posted on Twitter that you've already sold 20,000 copies in two months, which is huge.

LaDarrion Williams 4:02

Very huge for a debut author, especially a debut black author, very huge. Thank you.

Traci Thomas 4:10

So I want you to tell people in about 30 seconds or so, just about the book you can do a better job than what I just did.

LaDarrion Williams 4:16

Oh, pressure! Yes. Blood at the Root is a young adult fantasy. It's a contemporary fantasy about a young Black boy named Malik Baron who gets accepted into a magical HBCU called Cayman University, and he must go there to learn about his ancestral magic, meet new friends, but also uncover some dark secrets surrounding his mother's mysterious disappearance. And you know, he has to figure out some clues, because somebody there may or may not have something to do with her disappearance. So yeah, it's a first in a trilogy. I'm currently working on the sequel. So for those who read the book in one day and have to wait, sorry, I'm working on the sequel right now.

Traci Thomas 4:52

Okay, let's start there. I wasn't going to start there, but let's start there. You're working on the sequel. When you started the first book, did you know it was going to be a trilogy?

LaDarrion Williams 5:01

So when I started on the first book, technically it was supposed to be a TV show, but when I went into the book, I knew it was supposed to be three and possibly some spin offs, you know. But yeah, it's three, and I'm so glad that my publishers, Penguin Random House contracted me for three books. So, it's really great as a Black fantasy writer, to be able to tell his story in a full scope in three books. So yeah, a whole trilogy.

Traci Thomas 5:33

Okay, and don't be mad at me, but I have to ask this question, how long is it going to take you to finish the second book? Like, what's the wait time for those of us interested?

LaDarrion Williams 5:42

I can't give a specific date, but let's just say it comes out next summer.

Traci Thomas 5:46

Oh, okay, so we don't have to wait long.

LaDarrion Williams 5:48

No, we don't have to wait. You don't have to wait like, 2, 3, 4, years. Yeah, I have a full draft. I'm currently I'm in that. You know that weird? Why did they contract me to write a book. I'm not good-

Traci Thomas 6:03

The self-doubt phase.

LaDarrion Williams 6:04

It's the self doubt phase, which I hate, but I know it's just one of those things you just have to work through. And it's just, it's like building a house, right? You have to lay the foundation, and all the, all everything, and so, yeah, it's just a weird phase. I'm with the book right now. It's just, I'm like, This is not good, but it's gonna get there. It's a process.

Traci Thomas 6:25

Did you feel that way about the first book? Did you feel like, Oh, my God, it's not good. What am I doing? Why did they buy this book?

LaDarrion Williams 6:33

I felt well because the first book poured out of me easier because I was so fired up at the time, I was very hurt and I was very depressed and disappointed about, like, just the way the industry was going I see at the time, and so I was just it was pouring out of me. It was very challenging when I ended up working with an editor, because my editor was asking questions about story and and plot, and I'm like, so that means I have to unravel this whole entire book and go back and start over. But that's the again, that's a part of the process. And, yeah, but this one is that sophomore, you know that sophomore book syndrome, it's hard because you're building, you're expanding, I'm expanding the world in the magic systems, and introducing new characters.

Traci Thomas 7:20

And also you're still confined to the world. Still have to stay. Like, I think sometimes maybe people are like, done with their first book, and they're like, Okay, I'm done with this for now. And it's like, you still have to be there. But also, like, make it bigger and different. But also like, you're still with Malik. Like, we're still here.

LaDarrion Williams 7:41

Yeah, he's, he's growing and he but he's also dealing with some of the ramifications from the first book. And how does that? My editor is calling it internal and external stakes, like, we have to really nail down those that in this book, and so it's hard to balance, because I want to, it's college, right? I want to have some fun and have him go, you know, go to these different type of classes for 200 pages, but, like, we still have to keep the, you know, the internal and external plot. So that's something I'm learning with this book, is making sure those are still intact.

Traci Thomas 8:19

Yeah, okay, I had a totally different plan for this interview, but I'm already pivoting. We're just gonna go because I, well, I have a background in theater, and you're a playwright, and so I want to know sort of for you, as you're talking about internal, external, I'm thinking, right? Because in a play, you don't do internal necessarily, like that's the actor's job, and so you write the text. And, you know, some people do and don't believe in subtext, and that's probably a different conversation. But like, you write a story, and it's almost all plot and the sort of internal character development stuff generally comes from the actor. So has that been like a big challenge for you trying to figure out how to draw that out?

LaDarrion Williams 8:59

Such a good question. It's been a very big challenge for me, even after Blood at the Root came out, writing a book is very hard, and it takes a lot of craft, and writing a play is very hard, but what I love about theater, and that's why theater is always it's always going to be my first love, is that when I'm tinkering with the play when I'm struggling with it, wrestling with it, I can hand it over to a director and actors, and we can go into a theater or a rehearsal hall and just grind it out. I literally just left a playwriting residency where we were in the rehearsal hall for like eight to nine hours a day, just I was rewriting. I was working with a dramaturg. I was I was changing. I was literally rewriting the whole play every single day, because I was being inspired by actors and director and the conversations that we were having in the room with the book. It's just me, literally today, I was working on it this morning. It's just me and this character, Malik. I have to be this vessel for this young boy to tell me his story. And there's all. Lot, and I want to add my things into it. But he wants to know, this is how my story want. This is how I want my story to go. It's so it's still internal, but you don't, there's no extra actors for me to, you know, work this out with, um and wrestle, wrestle out the the scenes with so it's, it's a big challenge. Writing a book is hard, y'all.

Traci Thomas 10:19

Do you ever think about bringing, like, some of the ways that plays are worked through to your novel writing, whether that's like giving pages to people or like, even having actors read it out loud to you so you can hear it? Like, have you ever considered that kind of stuff?

LaDarrion Williams 10:34

I think that's going to be something I'm going to consider. Like, I'm still in that awkward phase, yeah. Like, not ready for people to read it yet, not ready for people to read it because they because they were like, LaDarrion, you have to turn this book in in a month. You should writing 24 hours a day. But maybe with, like, maybe once I get, you know, into copy edits and line edits, maybe I can hand it off to people who are actors. And I'm just saying, hey, what do you think about that scene. Like, if you're reading this, is it? Because I want to make sure, too, while writing a book, I want to make sure it's still cinematic, yeah. And that's some that was some great feedback that I got from book one day where people were saying, Oh my gosh. Like, this needs to be a TV show, because I can see the world. I can one person was like, I can feel the Alabama heat. You know? You know that the humidity, that the music and the the laughter and like the dialects of the characters, so I infuse a lot of my screenwriting and playwriting myths into this book. So definitely, once I get to a comfortable place.

Traci Thomas 11:37

Okay, I definitely was reading this and was like, I gotta see it, I gotta see it, and that's coming.

LaDarrion Williams 11:43

It's coming. I can't say too much on it, but we are developing it as a TV show. So it's, it's, it's coming, where it's, it's gonna be fun, like, just some of the stuff that we had, you know, in the meetings, like just some of the ideas that me and my show runners are talking about, it's gonna be epic. It's just gonna be great to see Black people on screen just wielding magic and having fun, and also infusing a lot of that HBCU culture. Because my show learners went to an HBCU, so it's so great to they. They're providing that that air as well, like, like, the little secrets that you know, that a lot of us don't know about HBCUs. It's gonna be fun to intermingle that with magic on a TV show.

Traci Thomas 12:25

Yeah, I love it. Okay, I'm gonna go back now to what I was planning to start with, which is the book starts with an author's note, and you write to young black boys about sort of being represented on the page. And you know, my assumption from reading that and having heard you talk and stuff, is that, you know you're really writing towards Black boys. And I want to know why? Why do you feel like there's a need to be directed towards black boys, as opposed to black children more broadly. And also, have you heard from Black boys? What are they telling you about the book?

LaDarrion Williams 13:01

Yeah, I wrote, you know, we always hear authors say that, you know, I wrote the book for me because I didn't see myself reflected in the pages, right? So when I was in high school, there was Percy Jackson. I love Percy Jackson. I heard there's like, 16 books now, but when I was in high school, there were only three, okay? And like, I love that story. But I was like, well, from the cover, I was like, he definitely don't look like me. And the way in the pages, I was like, well, he doesn't talk like a country black boy from Alabama. I'm from Alabama. And I was like, just looking at my friends growing up, and how we used to love, like, you know, like those little Disney original movies on Friday nights, how they used to be like, they have, like, the fantasy ones, they have the contemporary ones. Um, and I just over the years, not seeing myself reflecting in the books. It actually made me stop reading for a very long time, because I was a I was an avid reader. I even read the the entire Left Behind series.

Traci Thomas 13:54

Don't judge me, but I don't even know what that is.

LaDarrion Williams 13:56

It was like the Christian dogma about Jesus coming back and rapturing everybody. It's a big fantasy theory, a big Christian series, and it was like 12 or 13 books. And I read the entire series as like a like a 14 year old. But for years I stopped reading and and when I was seeing, I remember seeing, like children of blood and bone making a lot of headway. And I was like, and I saw the hate you give, and I was like, whoa, whoa, what's happening in the book industry. And so I started reading those books, and I started kind of getting back in and then after Hollywood was telling me no about my short film A blooded root in the script, I was like, Well, I want to get back into reading, because I just need something to inspire me. And I went to Barnes and Noble in Burbank and and I and I asked the clerk, I said, Hey, I'm trying to get back into reading. I would love to read some fantasy books with black boys at the forefront. And mind you, at the time, this was during like 2020, like we all know a lot. Going on, yeah, pandemic and racial civil unrest. And I just needed to escape. I just needed to not see me as a black man being constantly killed on screen and in books and in plays. And I because it was just I couldn't get away from that. And the clerk took me over to the YA section, and she was looking up and down, and I was looking up and down, and at that time in the young adult fantasy space, we really couldn't find a book with a black boy on the cover, and she looked very embarrassed, yeah. And I was just like, it made me feel like that 17 year old kid again. That's that quick reading all those years. Um, and you know, there was some black boys in books, but they were, like, relegated to like, the side, right? Like, best friend, black best friend, best friend, and or, like they were getting killed. And I'm not saying those stories are not important. They're very, very important, right? Um, I wanted, I wanted to see the interiority of a young black boy's life, going through the motions, like falling in love, having magic, having and so I, at that moment, I declared, I said, Well, I'm gonna go write this book. Then I'm gonna turn this screenplay, because Hollywood kept telling, you know, into a book. And so I locked myself in my apartment for 12 days straight, living off of Cheez Its and Oreos. I wrote the first draft of Blood at the Root the novel. And, yeah, that was like, two, three years ago.

Traci Thomas 16:25

How long did it take you to write the draft? Do you remember?

LaDarrion Williams 16:28

Yeah, 12 days. That's it. Just it took 12 days to crank out a whole draft.

Traci Thomas 16:33

Wow, that's incredible. Yeah. Okay. And have you heard from black boys? Now that the books in the world, what are they doing?

LaDarrion Williams 16:40

Yeah, yeah. They're like, even, like, some of my cousins that they're like, 1716, or 17 years old, and they still live in the same neighborhood that Malik grew up in, and they're reading it, and they was like, like, well, they call me Montel because my middle name is Mattel. No relations to Montel, yeah. But they were telling me, like, man, like, thank you so much for writing this. Because one they were like, We got to, we get to see how you grew up and in the same spot. Like they were like, these are the same streets that we still run around. But like, you know, 20s, like, 1520, years ago, you were running these same streets, going to the candy lady house, going to the basketball court, and for them to read, that is so beautiful. And they're telling me like they feel seen and they feel heard. I'm had I did some signings for young black boys at a magnet school, and it was so beautiful to see, because this magnet program were only created for black children. And seeing those here in LA, in LA, I forgot what it was. I forgot the school. I know it's so it was somewhere in like Brentwood, and it was like these beautiful black children, like coming in, rushing in to get free books, and they were picking up the book, and I remember seeing one boy like putting the book beside him, like his faith. He was like, Yo, like. And I heard his friend, he was like, Yo, that looks like you do like that looks like you. And that's very powerful. And that's why I told my publishers it was a non negotiable for me. Even before signing this contract, I was like, I have to have a young black boy in a hoodie on the cover, because imagery is very powerful and it can inspire like everything I remember growing up, but not buddy and The Watsons Go to Birmingham were the only, some of the only books I've seen with a black boy on the cover that looked like me. So I knew imagery was it was very inspiring. So to hear that from parents and librarians and teachers and educators saying, I can finally give a book to some of the black boy students in our in our classrooms, because they look like him. They Malik talks like them, they can, you know, they can see like, Oh, I do matter. My story matters as well because I came from the same place that Malik comes from, or I experienced some of the same things he experienced. So it's beautiful. It's such a beautiful thing to see.

Traci Thomas 18:54

I love that. Yeah, I want to ask you one more thing about the author's note, yeah, why did you want to put it at the beginning of the book. What were you hoping to impart to your readers before they ever even meet Malik?

LaDarrion Williams 19:06

I mean, the author's note was, I wrote it. I didn't know how they were going to put it in the book. I wrote an article about the same thing. My editors was like, it's so beautiful, how you articulate the need. I think it's, it's an inspiration to whoever gets in, like, you know, Malik may not talk the way you want him to talk. He may not act the way he you want him to act, because he's a 17 year old kid. I just need you to before you go in and read the author's note, to learn that this is a black boy, and this is his story, and he he has, he at the forefront. He's not he's going to deal with some trials and tribulations, of course, but I need people to understand like Malik is a type of boy that a lot of, I'm going to be honest, a lot of educators, a lot of teachers, push to the back and ignore a lot of even a lot of family members, a lot of people in the neighborhoods like. Like, Oh, that young boy. He's just acting like he's troublesome. He act, he acted like a thug. He acting like this. But don't even know. He has 1000 stories inside of him that's just waiting old. And it's also too a call out to the industry, yeah, to say that it shouldn't take this book to make it mainstream for a young, teenage black boy, and why a fantasy for you to see him and to know Him? And so, yeah, that's and I'm glad my editors and my publishers put it at the forefront, because I'm getting so many comments saying, man, like, like, people are like, I don't even read authors know, because I'm just ready to get to the story. But the way it's written, they're like, Oh, we know what type of tone this book is about to have. We about to see the poetry and the everydayness of black people living in the South like knowing that, you know our grandmothers and our aunties and our uncles, they may say some of the most outlandish things and some of the most things you like. Oh, you shouldn't be saying that. Yeah, but, but to know that there's there's poetry, because I think about my mom, who is a beautiful black woman who've been living in Alabama for 60 years, and don't she always feels like she doesn't. She's not represented a lot of the times in in media. And I think about my aunties and my uncles, who used to sit out in the front yard and tune on spit and spin out tobacco, right, and telling stories, and going to the candy lady house and sitting at the feet of your grandmother and learning about the wisdom of God, right? Because the matriarch of the family who holds the family together, that's what I poured into that. Author's note, it's not just a black boy journey, but this is what's poured into him, and this is what you're going to see throughout the book.

Traci Thomas 21:40

Yeah, and I think you do such a good job in the book of like, creating that community that you're talking about. There's so many characters in the book that are like archetypes in black families and black communities. And I really loved seeing that, like, Mama Aya, obviously, like, Uncle Sam is, like, that's the person you know.

LaDarrion Williams 21:58

Like, that's you know, you know who that is. He's like, drinking Hennessey and smoking cigars.

Traci Thomas 22:03

Exactly. And like, you know, Alexis, like, it's like, there's all these, it's not just Malik, who, you know, I mean, I would argue, like, kind of, based off what you're saying, is maybe the least recognizable archetype in the book, right? Because, like, we're, we don't get as many stories that center black boys who aren't, like, you know, perceived as, like, exceptional students who are sort of seen as, like, troublemakers or troubled but a lot of the other figures around him, like the the headmaster of the school, or what does he call, the chancellor, the chancellor, yeah, Chancellor. Like, that's a really recognizable version of a certain kind of black man, and like, and his mother as well. And so, like, I think I really liked, like, it's like, as soon as we even, like, learn their names. I was like, Oh, I know who that is, right? I said I wanted to talk about names, and that's where we'll go to how were you thinking of naming your characters? There's a lot of like, Creole in this book. The HBCU is not just for black Americans. It is Global Diaspora. The school is part of a network of other magical HBCUs, and they're all over the world. So you were, I know you were drawing on, like, different languages and different cultures, but like, how but like, how were you thinking about who got what name and what the name sounded like and looked like on the page?

LaDarrion Williams 23:27

Yeah, yeah, such a beautiful question. You know, in the black community, names are very, very important to us. And it's, it's often passed down. It's often, we often make up names. And some people, you know, you hear some people, like, Now, why would you name your baby dad? But like, I think we don't even know, but that comes from our ancestry, right? Like, we create names. Names have power, and when, when our ancestor was brought over here, what was the first thing that a lot of the colonial white people did? They took away the names. That was the first thing, because name how power it has identity. So I was very intentional on naming a lot of the characters, not just all willy nilly. And I'm gonna be honest, I did steal some of my family members names. And I go to Facebook like, I'm sorry, I gotta put your government name up in there. Yeah. But even, even down to like, Malik, Baron. Um, I was like, well, Malik, I knew what Malik mean. And I know, I know an actual my friend. She has a cousin, and he's like, the same age, and his name is Malik and, and what's beautiful to say? Like, he was like, I've never seen my name in a book before, so when he read, when he opened up the book, he was like, That's my name. Like, that's so cool. Even Baron by once, MD, like, it's very Haitian Creole. Like, I drew on a lot of inspiration from Asian Haitian cosmology and religion, because it's not talked about. I didn't, I didn't learn about the Haitian Revolution until I was in my 20s. Thank you Alabama School systems. But because the history of it was hidden away from it again, because they. Took away. That was the first it was the names, and it was the history behind the name. So like, Don yay. A lot of people say donja, donja Devere. I'm like, No, it's Don yay, because one of one of my favorite playwrights, his name is Donja R Love. He wrote a beautiful play called Sugar in our Wounds about two slave men falling in love. And I was just like, hey, I messaged her. I was like, hey, I really love the name Daniel, because it's spelled D, O, N, j, A, but, I was like, but it's so beautiful how you pronounce it. I was like, Can I use it for the book? And he was like, yeah. Like, use it. And so that's how I came up with Daniel Devereaux, Alexis, savon and Elijah, like, uses some Elijah comes from the Bible, right? Like, I know a lot of black people name the kids from the Bible, Mama, Aya, Mama, Aya. Is this like? Because we think of like, priestess, right? Mambos, right? M, A, M, B, O, like mambos. Those are the women priestess and voodoo and hoodoo, religion, spirituality. And so I wanted to name her mama Aya, because that there's power in that name. And Chancellor Taran. Because I was like, Okay, I need a Bougie name.

Traci Thomas 26:10

Yeah, for sure.

LaDarrion Williams 26:11

I was like, what's a Bougie- I was like, Ooh, Von Clay, like, Taron, and yeah, and all the tribes and the covid and I was like, I drew on a lot of Creole inspiration.

Traci Thomas 26:26

Speaking of, sort of, like, the history that's in the book, how much, how much research were you doing? And, like, how much of the magical stuff is completely made up by you, and how much of it draws on religious and spiritual practices in other places and in the States?

LaDarrion Williams 26:45

You know, just growing up in the South for me, like, I think my experience was a lot of research, because I had an interesting conversation with my mom, because she was like, when I first sold the book, she was like, she was like, Can I ask you a question? I was like, what's up? She was like, Why do you like magic? Like, why do you like magic? Like, because she was like, because you could tell there was still that, because you could say, growing up like Harry Potter was that, was that devil worshiping magic? And she was like, Why do you, why do you watch that devil? Why do you like that devil worshiping magic type stuff? And I was like, oh, okay, we're gonna have to have a conversation. And I was like, I was like, you see that cinnamon broom that's on your wall right now. She's like, Yeah. I was like, Where do you think they came from? Why do black people hang brooms on the wall? Like, especially cinnamon brooms. And I was like, you remember Auntie blah blah blah was sweet from the back of the house all the way to the front and all the way out in the sidewalk and up to the street? She's like, Yeah. She's like, Yeah, she used to do that all the time. I was like, Where do you think they came from? And, like in going through church, and I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church, people used to fall out in the spirit and talking tongues and be filled with the Holy Ghost and drink, you know, and do communion. I was like, that's who do. That was passed down from generations to generations. So, and I didn't realize that until I started. I was like, Wait a minute. I remember that. I remember that. And my mom, like, when you have, like, heartburn, you know, pour some mustard in a spoon and eat and eat some meat mustard, or rub an onion under your foot, because either, like, you're dealing with some type of ailment or illness. And I was like, all these home style remedies are passed down from my grandmothers and our great grandmothers. And I was like, that was beautiful, like the stories in the in the in the customs, that was like part of my research. But also for the Haitian Revolution, I was like, I found out there was a group of people down there. They believe they won the war because they called on the gods. And I was like, Gods. I was like, what kind of gods they got? And I realized, and I was like, Oh, wait, there's black gods, right, right, um, yeah. And I was like, because we only learn about Greek mythology, and I was like, there, there's Orisha, there's beautiful black women who are gods and goddesses, like, oh, shoot, and Oya, who will tear everything up if you make her mad, and Shango and Ogun, and it was so beautiful to learn all of that and to incorporate that into the book in the lens of a 17 year old black boy who's learning everything about his ancestry. Because, again, a lot of us don't know about our ancestry, right, because it was stolen away from us, but to put it back into the hands of the descendants is such a beautiful thing, and that's why that was kind of like a part of my research process.

Traci Thomas 29:27

Okay, so then let me ask you this. I always am fascinated this with YA authors, because there is a an expectation that you are going to teach the young people something, whether or not that is what you set out to do, it's usually something that's sort of pressed upon YA books, like this book has to teach kids or show kids something. But I know as a young person who read books, never YA books, I was always reading adult books that a lot of young people go to books to be entertained. Yeah, just like adults do. So how did you balance, sort of like, infusing your book with this history that we're talking about, of this magical, spiritual stuff, of the Haitian Revolution of, you know, there's a, I mean, there's a lot of things that are like being taught to us, I think, yeah, things that I learned, but also I'm assuming a lot of things that I knew that kids are learning for the first time. So how do you balance the entertainment and the like, teaching part of it?

LaDarrion Williams 30:28

Yeah, I think it's it comes from, like, if any writers are are listening, they're going to, if you read Sid fields, say the cat, right? There's like, plot beats that you would want to follow as you're writing your script or your play or your your novel, and there's a plot be called Fun and games. And fun and games is kind of like the promise of the premise type of thing. So obviously, with Blood at the Root the fun and games, the promise of the premise is the magical HBCU, right? So we see, I there's a chapter that literally falls under the line of the funny games where Malik is introduced to the HBCU, and he's seeing kids look just like him, creating mini tornados and jumping like 100 feet in the air to dunk a basketball. He's seeing them like run with speed and transform into like birds and animals. And he's seeing all of this, and it's not to teach you, oh, this is, this is it could be, and it can be seen as info dumping. But also it's like, no, this is fun, like, I this is kind of stroking, like the, oh, I wish I could go to that school, like people are reading it, like, I wish I can. I wish I can be a part of Cayman university, because I never felt like that, or getting that letter, right, getting that acceptance letter. So it's infusing that, but also trying to slip in, oh, like, there's the Haitian Revolution. Oh, there's, I kind of got a little bit of flack for it, but there was the watermelon scene where Malik was, like, this is kind of stereotypical, that watermelon is replenishing our magic. But also there's a history behind it, because we all know why watermelon is seen as stereotypical. Because black people were making money after slavery selling fruit. That's why they went into our neighborhoods and killed all the the sea, the trees that bear seat fruit seeds and and that's why they came up with those those stereotypes. So it's kind of like slipping in those little moments of like history. And some people may say, Okay, that was a little corny. Or some people like, Okay, I just want to be entertained. But I think for me writing, I stand on the shoulders of August Wilson and Lorraine Hansberry and and, you know, Toni Morrison, they were entertaining, but they also taught a lot of us, and Zora Neale Hurston as well, like they taught a lot of us, because I think it's because books are being banned, especially black books. I think it's important to infuse a lot of our black history into books, because it could be fun. It's not all about slavery, it's not all about the trauma and the strife of black people. There's some fun things that you know, our people did, and I think, you know, the generation should know and and to see it in a in a very entertaining way, it is hard. I will I will say it is very difficult to balance, and that's something I'm learning. I'm learning not only from Book Two, but I'm learning from book book one. I'm sorry, but book two as well.

Traci Thomas 33:18

Yeah, okay, you brought up getting flack. You brought up trauma. You were sort of, you know, the book has been pitched as like black boy joy, no racial trauma. And I know people on the internet have pushed back against that aggressively. You push back against their push back. So I do want to talk about it a little bit. I first, I think I want to know to you, what do you mean when you say there's no racial trauma in the book?

LaDarrion Williams 33:47

Yes, and I will say, like, because even making that tweet, you know, Twitter, you can only make at the time, you only make 140 characters, right? So I went back and I said, Oh, I'm so sorry. I actually misspoke. And let me clarify, um, at the time, I was very when I wrote bloody through the the TV show version, I was very angry, yeah, about the representation. And I was just very angry about, like, the state of the country and what we were going through. And I was just like, as a black man, and I'm looking to my nephew, who's 13, going off going going on 30, um, he's literally tight and yeah, and I was just like, he is at a he's at a point where he should be seeing black boys like him having fun and and falling in love and having cool, magical powers and having epic adventures. And at the time, when I wrote Blood at the Root, I was just only seeing black men just being shot and killed, right, and bleeding out on again, I'm a playwright, so it was in the play. It was in the playwriting world. It was in the it was on TV and film, and it was in books. And as a black man who was going through that every single day, yeah, I was like, I just want to escape this. Like we don't. Get to see the interiority of these black men who are shot and killed. We only see their lives being humanized after their death. Like when I say black lives matter, I don't. I don't mean it in death. I mean black dreams and black hopes and and fears and happiness and tears and so that's what I meant when I didn't want the focal point, and I should have put the word focal point in in a lot of my tweets, I didn't want the focal point of Malik's story to be racial trauma, yeah, and him getting getting killed by police. That's why I put him in a hoodie, because with Trayvon Martin, we really, during that time, we really didn't know who he was. That's why I love what Ava did with origin, right? She She provided a lot of the backstory to him, how he loved to laugh on the phone with his friends, how he loved going to the store. He loved Skittles. He loved like, the beauty. There was one scene where you saw the black boy sitting outside of the pool, but you just you. He still smiled, and he still like, late it's like the beauty of it. And so that's, that's why I that's where I come from. When I write, when I said that, I want to see the beauty of this of a black boy's life, because, again, like, I love that my nephew is so smart, and he loves video games and but also he has this type of wisdom that you don't really get to see on the page, right? That's why I wrote Tay. Like Tay is such and he loves to cook. We don't see young black boys loving to cook. We don't see, you know, Malik is smiling. He falls in love with and soon as he sees Alex Alexis, right? He goes on to this beautiful, poetic diatribe about, like, how beautiful she is, and how she reminds him of the summer rain and them going to the fairs and them going to the candy later house with 50 cents and giving her and eating sour like we don't get to see that in real time, unless, unless the black boy is taken out of the story and is killed. And that's where I was coming from when I said that. And I yeah, I did get a little pushback, but I was just, but I guess it's starting a conversation, because a lot of people were like, well, dang, we really don't get to see this. I do, and I have parents messaging me like, Thank you for writing Blood at the Root, because now my black boy feels seen, is to see him is to know him. That's what that's that's where I come from when I made those statements.

Traci Thomas 37:20

Yeah, and I think, like, what, what it made me think about, right, like this term, like racial trauma, I think it also makes me think about, like, what kind of trauma is not racialized, right? And like, what kind of trauma are black people, like, allowed to have that isn't police brutality or the legacy of like or like slavery, like depicted, right? And like in this case. And this is not a spoiler, because it's where the book starts. Malik is in foster care because his mother has been killed in this weird situation, and so he's taken away and like that is extremely traumatizing for a child. But is that racial trauma, you know, or, like, is that just traumatizing for kids and not? I mean, obviously we can get into the history of the foster care system and all of that, and like, everything in America is racialized. But when you sort of, when you take it to, like, just storytelling purposes, Nobody says that. Like, you know, I'm trying to think, like all those Pixar movies, it always starts with like, the mom dying or the dad dying. No one's like, oh yeah. No one's like, oh, Nemo has, like, racialized trauma. It's just like, this is a traumatic event that starts the action of the book or the movie. And so I was also kind of thinking about, like, what does it mean to be racial trauma versus just general trauma.

LaDarrion Williams 38:41

Yeah, general trauma, I think, yeah, it's so interesting black writers and creatives we hear, because we do hear a lot of we just want, we just, we just want black characters on in movies to not experience black trauma. And I, and I completely understand that, and I also understand where black writers are sometimes coming from. I think what's missing from the conversation our black trauma is only publicized or put on the screen to teach white people about our lives. And that's and that's what I really meant. I didn't for me just growing up. I just remember, right, like, just like a lot of the times we see white we see a lot of white people writing slave movies and a lot of and we only see the brutalization. And yes, and it happened, trust me, it did, yeah. But I love what one of my favorite playwright, Dominic mariso, she wrote a play called confederates, and it talks about slavery, but also it dips between that time and this time. But she said, Yeah, but she was like, I know it talks about slaves, and that's the trauma. But she also was like, Y'all do realize that slaves were talking right? They were, they were they were laughing and they were cracking up. They were cracking jokes on each other, and they was dancing. And like a lot of the dance, a lot of the Tick Tock dances that we see, it comes from the Jew. Dancing and like, that's, that's historical, because black slaves during during church, they used to dance around, and they used to literally judge each other off of their dance moves. And so that's, yes, it's traumatic, but like, What I meant was I didn't want again. I didn't want the focal point of his story to be racial trauma. Yep, he's going to learn about his history through his grandmother, but he's going to learn that his great grandmother, it was, had magic, and she could transform things, and she can she she got herself to freedom using her magic that they so desperately tried to take away. Yeah, so in that you still learn, but I just didn't want to teach white readers. Hey, look at me. This is what black people go through because of trauma. No, it's just and trauma and conflict. I think some, sometimes a lot of people get those mixed up. Yeah, you know, yeah, you still go through conflict.

Traci Thomas 40:54

Right, right, right, right, exactly. And I think also, like, just hearing you talk about that play, and what you're saying about, like, so many films about, like, slavery are written by white people. It's like, okay, well, why can't we have a chance also to tell our own stories, our own traumas, right? It's like, oh, everyone's all of a sudden tired of black trauma. But it's like, well, bitch, I haven't even started yet. Like, we haven't started. Like, you're tired of Steven Spielberg's version. But like, may I, may I tell you about my history, and I feel like that's something that's always very frustrating to me. And I'm also a person who really likes traumatic stories. Like, I like to read about, like, the history and like, like, I have a small obsession with the Holocaust. Like, I like, I just like reading about some of the darkest times, but I am invigorated when I get to read a story by a black person about one of those times, right? Like, it's like, it's almost like an erasure. It's like, oh, well, we're not doing this anymore, and so you shouldn't be able to even, you know, like, I think sometimes that's the impulse of, like, we're more than our trauma, and therefore we're not going to do this anymore. And like, I think some I saw a tweet or something where someone was like, how many world war two movies do we have?

LaDarrion Williams 42:12

Exactly, Because they come it seems like World War two movies, I think at a point it seemed like they were coming out every single year, every minute, and they were winning all the Oscars.

Traci Thomas 42:22

Dunkirk, 199- Well, I guess that's World War One anyways.

LaDarrion Williams 42:25

But I get what you're saying, like, those, those we were-

Traci Thomas 42:28

And that was such a small period of history, right? Like World War Two, American chattel slavery- we were enslaved longer than we've been free. So it's like the and I hear what you're saying that like, you didn't want to do that, and that is totally You're right. But I also think this idea that, like, we shouldn't be doing it, that a lot of people push back on, or people being like, I don't I only want to see black boy joy or whatever is like, okay, but also like black people can be joyous in a book that is set during the worst of times, because we have been able to do that. That is our part of our story, and that's part of our magic.

LaDarrion Williams 43:05

Exactly, like, because I yeah, like, I get what people are saying. Like, Well, we thought this was Black boy joy. Well, did you not read the part where he was going through the college and he was smiling to himself, yeah? And he was feeling like a little kid again, and when he saw Alexis, and when they went to and I want to, I don't want to spoil a lot, but, yeah, but there was, there's a lot of joyous moments. But, like, we all grew up like, I'm pretty sure every black person who grew up in the church was like, you know, you know, what's the same pain may endure for the night, but joy comes in the morning. You gotta get through the pain, yeah, to get through the joy, you know, even enjoy like, there's like, I don't want to, I don't want to have the conversation of like, let's erase our ancestors what they went through. Because even in that traumatic, you know, moments again, just like Dominique Marisol said about her play, they still crap jokes and they still they were drinking and they was they was partying like, right? I mean, they were in the in the segregation cells, right? They were still partying and still having, like, all those good time like, I love what in Lovecraft country, right? How that scene where they was having that house party and everybody was dancing, and it was like, boom, boom, boom. And then, as soon as though white people came out and tried to disrupt their dancing, uh, journey, smallest character took that bat and she bashed all their cars in. Yeah? That was joyful to see. Yeah. That was so cool to see, because it was in those moments. A lot of times I feel like if a white person would have wrote that they would have just had those black characters just, well, let's, you know, let's pack up and go home and not party anymore. But I love that moment, and even like the music that they added, like they added, like, the modern day music in that like, it's like, yeah, like, let's go. Like it that that brought joy to for me to see and to see that black woman walk through fire with a book in her hand, even though something very traumatic happened in whole so even in the Tulsa episode they you saw the book. Kids getting ready for prom. I didn't know that until I did my own research. Tulsa massacre. Massacre happened on the night of these black kids proms, and it was sad because they didn't get to experience like some like, some of those seniors didn't get to experience their like, their prom. But there was a lot of joy in like, not in a Tulsa massacre, but, but we, I think we only, we only focus on the Tulsa massacre, but we didn't, but I would have loved to see them going to the movies, right? Because they had their own movie theaters. They had their own banks and their own entertainment. Yeah, it's just, it's a balance. I think, I think a lot of times black people, black audiences, we got tired of seeing only slave movies, and they were only written from a soul perspective of because you see the white writer, the white director and the white producers.

Traci Thomas 45:49

And the white savior in the film.

LaDarrion Williams 45:52

Even though that wasn't even true, like that, even in Hidden Figures, right? Kevin Costner's character wasn't even he didn't even exist, right? And they had him knocked down the colored only bathroom side. Yeah, I think that's where, where people are tired of the black trauma, because, yes, it's told through the lens of a white person.

Traci Thomas 46:12

I think the telling through the lens of a white person specifically, and again, like I am a pro trauma person, and I also respect people who are like, I don't fucking want that. And like, I am grateful that there are creatives and readers who want only joyous depictions, and that is within your right to to write and to read and everything. And the opposite is true to me too. But I do think it's really interesting that you got so much pushback about about that language. Because I do think, like in my reading, like, I mean, I just in my understanding of history, you cannot divorce racial trauma from the experience of black people in America. It's not possible, even if you write a book that's all joyous, and it's just like I went to the movies and had popcorn and it was the best day of my life. Like, you know, someone might have been looking at you, or you might have someone the manager might have come over and said, Can I help you?

LaDarrion Williams 47:14

You know, like, whatever that is, it's those little reminders you just you don't allow it to detour you. And again, for blood root, we don't even white people don't even have, like, steak in the story. Yeah, you know, like they're not even, I just again. I didn't want to write my again. My Malik, Malik Baron, goes through a lot of he goes through a lot, yeah, and he's learning, and he's making mistakes, and he's he's not saying he sometimes don't say the right thing, and it's okay. We have to, because when I was 17, I was saying any and everything under the sun, like I was making so and I look back, when I was 17, I was like, validarian, why did you do that? But you don't know, because you, I think a lot of readers, too, are so far removed from that age. You're like, Well, I wouldn't do that. Well, of course, I hope you wouldn't.

Traci Thomas 48:05

I hope not!

LaDarrion Williams 48:06

You're 40, mid 30s and 40s. I hope you wouldn't make the same mistake as a 17 year old teenager. I think we have to, yeah, I think we have to be gracious of that. And I am that too. Like, there's some stuff. I'm like, I'm not really, I'm not really, I'm not really messing with that, because I see, I see the white savior trope that's happening, but that's still somebody's story.

Traci Thomas 48:28

Yeah, you know, let me ask you this, because, because you're new into the book space, and, like, you know, you had this sort of, like, public dust up with the Internet people. And to me, that's really different than, I think, a lot of what happens in the theater. And I'm wondering how that feels for you. I mean, I know, like, someone like, maybe, like, a Jeremy o Harris has had some pretty public dust ups and, like, talk about a thing that is really focused on racialized trauma slave play, right? Like, that is the center of the entire play. But I'm just curious, like, the like, rabid readers who are, like, so passionate about the work and like, want to tell you about that, how that compares to for you from, like, being a playwright and like, maybe people see the show and you're not even there that day and you never hear from like, or do you feel like it is similar, the kind of feedback?

LaDarrion Williams 49:19

It's definitely not similar, because from in the on the playwriting side, I get black people, like, I just got a message, because I have a play going up in Memphis right now, and it's selling out, and I'm so happy.

Traci Thomas 49:34

What's it called? What's it called?

LaDarrion Williams 49:36

I wrote a play called Coco Queens, okay? I wrote a play about four black women living in the 70s, and most people are probably like, Now, why is this Black man writing that story? And I and I told and I only want black women to direct it, and I put that. In the actual script, like only black women can direct this play, and I don't really want to impede my even though the director was very like, no, we want your thoughts. But I was like, Well, I don't, because I don't want to bring my male biasness into it. Yeah, I trust you as black women to tell this story, but I'm getting messages from people that don't even know me. They was like, even black men. They're like, brother. Thank you so much for writing this play. Because they was like, I saw my grandmother, I saw my mother on that stage. I saw my aunties and to know, and getting these, these things. And I'm pretty sure people like, I didn't really like that play, and I never hear from them ever again, right? I think the book community in the way Blood at the Root was set up, and I'm grateful for everything that it did and it's doing. I think it's, I think it's easily accessible than theater, because sometimes you gotta play rights go through months and sometimes years without getting a production Right, right? Books, books are out there and and I have to fight, but I made sure every bookstore is stocking Blood at the Root so people go in there. It's easily accessible, and people and yes, I am. And please don't tag authors and bad reviews, because they always say, you know, they always say, authors stay out of review spaces. And we, and I do. But when I'm constantly being tagged in one you're inviting me into that space. And yeah, and I'm just, and it's so interesting. I'm new to the book world, and I'm navigating even this week, even some of the pushback that I've been getting, I'm navigating it, and it's hard for me. Sometimes, you know, like I'm human. I My feelings are sometimes my feelings are hurt, and sometimes I'm like, Okay, well, then maybe you're not that good, you know. And I was dealing with that for a couple of days. I was like, well, then maybe you're not that, you know, maybe you're not that great. But also, this is my first book, yeah, and I, you know, and I'm going to grow, and I want to grow, and I want to become better, and I'm learning crafting and all of that. So I'm like, you asking me, like, how am I, how is it different, and how I'm dealing with it? I'm literally, like, navigating it right now, right? Yeah, yeah. And I'm and I'm and I'm pretty sure for Book Two, I'm gonna learn, you know what, ladanya, just keep your head down and just stay focused. That's why, like, I love Beyonce. Like Beyonce is, she's really, like, an inspiration of mine, not even just outside of music. She's like, just stay focused and focus on the craft and make sure you grow and just do everything you can, because you got to think about those young boys who are, who are on the verge right now, who are quitting, yeah, reading, reading, and maybe one, I don't know, maybe want to drop out of school, or maybe feeling they're in the foster care like I have no hope. And maybe they walk into a Barnes and Noble like I just, I'm this because I was this black boy, and they walk in and they see Malik on that book cover, and they like, what is that? Right? Because that boy looks like me, and they crack open that book, and they see themselves reflected through the text. And then they want to continue to push so I have to focus on that, yeah, more, because I want to make sure that they're reflected in these stories black, not just black boys, but black children, black queer boys. Yeah, you know, I want to make sure they're not always relegated to the side, that they have their own agency. So, yeah, I'm navigating, I'm navigating it really right now.

Traci Thomas 53:08

Yeah, well, it's a hard thing, and I feel like, you know, when I, when we set up this interview, like there hadn't been all of that pushback, at least that I had seen. And so, you know, I'm, like, reading the book, and I'm hearing, you know, I'm hearing from you, I'm hearing from others. And I was really interested to know, like, what that feels like, especially knowing that you do come from the theater, and in my experience, like it is pretty different. Okay, this is such a hard shift, but you already mentioned Oreos and Cheez Its Yes. How else do you like to write? Like, do you write all day? How often do you listen to music? Are there other snacks? Are there beverages? Are there rituals like, kind of set the scene?

LaDarrion Williams 53:51

So I'm because those Oreos and cheeses I was living off of, they made a brother gained a lot of weight. I have to kind of switch to some healthier at least something. But you know, I love music, and I know a lot of people like, don't put music in books, but I'm like-

Traci Thomas 54:12

No, I think there's so much music in this book, is there a Spotify playlist? So send me the link.

LaDarrion Williams 54:19

Yes, I will definitely send you the link music for me. It. It provides words in the silence when I when I don't have any words. The other night, I was, I was listening to, I was writing a love like, kind of like a love scene. I don't want to spoil it for people, but there's a love scene in book two. And I was listening to The Color Purple, soundtrack. And I love the movie. I know a lot of people didn't like it, but that scene between Fantasia and Taraji was, it was one of the most beautiful scenes I've ever like I ever witnessed. And I was listening to that song, and I was just hearing Fantasia singing, and I was just writing because music I don't. No music, just it helps me tap into different places, and when I'm running like I'm running an intense scene. So Malik, he loves, he loves Kendrick, He loves J Cole.

Traci Thomas 55:12

Not team Drake, I hope.

LaDarrion Williams 55:14

He's definitely not. He loves Kendrick, but I love how Kendrick, he's he, like I describe it in the book one, he spits that rap poetry, right? Like, I love how he talks from the the gruffness and the like, the wrongness. But I also love J Cole because he talks about the adolescents, yeah, and him going from adolescence to experiencing, losing his virginity and falling in love and and going through the streets and like now in adulthood. So I love that there's a complete, you know, stages of life, right? And it's music. So I love listening to that. I think music is a big thing. And also Pinterest. I love Pinterest. It's getting kind of crazy with the AI pictures, but I have to, I have to shout out this one photographer on Twitter. I think his Twitter name is son Ra, um, he's from Mississippi, and he posts pictures of um, black folks like farmers and black southern life. And I love going through his his catalog, and I'm like, oh, that's, that's the type of vibe that I want for this chapter. And because Gordon parts, you know, he did the same thing, and Bearden did the same thing for August Wilson, right? I read some of their work. I'm reading Zora right now, mules and men and Richard Wright, black boy. I want to dive into the old text. How? Because Zora, the way she wrote prose, it's just like, it's just, it's poetry. Is literally like, I'm like, How did ma'am? I was like, resurrect you. And say, Please teach me. I go to the theater, I watch play, I watch movies and scenes from some of my favorite movies, because I want to feel like that 17 year old kid again. And the league is experiencing a lot of He's dealing. He has a roommate who loves to watch Living Single and I go watch, I go watch Sister, sister. I go watch, like, the college years, right, right, right. And so, yeah, you know, like, and that's kind of like, my, my thing. And I don't have, like, a ritual, like, I'm like, I have to do this. Like, August, he said he has to wash his hands. I just write. And I just, I just go through it. I go through a lot of emotions when I write.

Traci Thomas 57:25

Wait, I have to ask, what's your favorite August Wilson play?

LaDarrion Williams 57:28

Jitney. Jitney, yeah. But as I'm getting into, like, my spirituality, I think Gem of the Ocean inspired a lot of my characterizations-

Traci Thomas 57:40

Yes, see that. I can see it. I can see it.

LaDarrion Williams 57:44

Yeah, yeah. So I was very inspired just her monolog about going to the City of Bones, yeah, and, and a lot of people, it could go over a lot of people's heads, but for for those are listening, the City of Bones is the Atlantic Ocean that our, that our ancestors traveled over, and they, and they, you know, they, died in dignity, and they're at the bottom of the ocean, so that definitely inspired a lot. So it's becoming my favorite play of his.

Traci Thomas 58:08

Okay, I am basic. I do really love Fences. I do.

LaDarrion Williams 58:14

Yeah, I love, I connect with lions in Fences a lot. Okay, just with my just with my relationship with my father.

Traci Thomas 58:23

Oh, wait, I also love Jitney. I was confusing Jitney with another one. I also love Jitney.

LaDarrion Williams 58:32

It just reminds me of my uncle. It reminds me sitting in the barber shop when I was little, right? And my uncles against chewing that tobacco and spitting it out in a Coke can, you know, or Coke bottle that my uncle used to spit in a coke bottle. Yeah, it just reminds me of that in the language. I mean, August, that's why I say I always stand on the shoulders of August Wilson, because he inspires me a lot. Zora and Lorraine. I mean, those are my Titans. You know, that I look to, you know?

Traci Thomas 58:59

Okay, I have two more quick questions for you, then we're done. One is, what is a word you can never spell correctly on the first try?

LaDarrion Williams 59:06

Oh, wait, what is the word? Uh, convenience.

Traci Thomas 59:10

Oh, impossible, impossible.

LaDarrion Williams 59:11

I'm like, How to-

Traci Thomas 59:13

Where do those vowels come from and where do they go?

LaDarrion Williams 59:16

How do you like? Is it I E, or is it E? Yeah, like I can't. Or in condolences, convenience, condolences? Is it condolences or condolences?

Traci Thomas 59:27

I am one of the world's worst spellers, so I would not know.

LaDarrion Williams 59:30

So I think, because that's how I have to do it, like, I was like, okay, con ven ience. like, convenience.

Traci Thomas 59:41

I'm probably getting it wrong. I get it wrong every time, anytime I try to spell the word that people can't spell. I'm always, always getting it wrong.

LaDarrion Williams 59:49

Oh, those be kicking my ass. That's why I don't put it a lot in in the book. I'm tired.

Traci Thomas 59:57

I lied to I said two more, but actually have have two now. I have two. One is for people who like Blood at the Root. What else would you recommend to them that is in conversation with? What other books would you recommend that's in conversation with what you've done?

LaDarrion Williams 1:00:10

I want to shout out this writer, Shakir Rashaan. He wrote this novel called never race, okay? And it's about a black boy from Atlanta, and he describes it as Cloak & Dagger, like Marvel's cloak and dagger meets Bel-Air,

Traci Thomas 1:00:27

Oh, okay.

LaDarrion Williams 1:00:28

And it's like, he's like, this kid has, like, the power that he could transform into this beat, like a beast, like animal. And it's about this black boy. He falls in love, and he he goes through the city of Atlanta. It's such a beautiful book, and I want to shout that out, because it's kind of like in direct conversation with mine, and he just deserves because I just, I love shouting out other black authors. There's Ryan Douglas is. It's a horror book, so a lot of us like horror. It's called The taking of Jake Livingston, okay, another, he was another black ya writer who was on the same mission that I was just showcasing black queer boys, and black boys in a in a better light, there's Terry J Benton Walker's blood decks and blood justice. Please support those black authors, because I think we're, we're like some of the only black men in ya right now they're like, creating some great work.

Traci Thomas 1:01:23

Yeah, and, like a more fantasy space. I love it. Okay. Last one, if you could have one person dead or alive read this book, who do you want it to be?

LaDarrion Williams 1:01:33

Okay, Zora Neale Hurston, I because she inspires me and and I just want, I want to, I wanted this book to pay flowers to her. I love it because she didn't receive them while she was here.

Traci Thomas 1:01:45

So everyone, the book is called Blood at the Root. You heard it here. It is the first in a trilogy. So you have to read it. Get ready for next summer. I listened to some of the audiobook. It's fantastic. Great. Really brought it to life. For me, it was when I started listening to the audiobook that I was really like, oh, I have to see this on the screen. Because I was like, I gotta see but he's really giving a performance. He's getting in there. It's, I mean, it's not just narration. It is voice acting, for sure.

LaDarrion Williams 1:02:19

He's really one of those talented young black actors that we need to be looking at. Shout out to him, and please watch him on All American they just got renewed for another season, so I don't know if this character's coming back, but hey, Jalyn Hall is as an actor we need to be watching.

Traci Thomas 1:02:36

And everyone, get through your copy of Blood at the Root wherever you get your books. LaDarrion, thank you so much for being here.

LaDarrion Williams 1:02:42

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Traci Thomas 1:02:43

And everyone else we will see you in the stacks.

All right, y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to LaDarrion Williams for joining the show. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Josh Redlich for helping to make this conversation possible. Don't forget the stacks book club pick for August is Master Slave Husband Wife, by Ilyon Woo, which we will discuss with Jay Ellis on Wednesday, August 28th. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks to join The Stacks Pack and subscribe to my newsletter at TraciThomas.substack.com. Make sure you're subscribed to The Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave a rating and a review. For more from The Stacks follow us on social media at thestackspod on Instagram, Threads and TikTok and at thestackspod_ on Twitter and you can check out my website at thestackspodcast.com. This episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas, with production assistance from Lauren Tyree. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Megan Caballero
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