Unabridged: Kendrick’s “Great American Game” with David Dennis Jr. - Transcript

In this episode of The Stacks Unabridged, author and ESPN writer David Dennis Jr. joins us to break down Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl halftime show. We get into the performance itself, the layers behind it, and how it fits into his ongoing beef with Drake. Plus, we discuss the reaction to the show and what it says about Kendrick’s place in music and culture.

TRANSCRIPT

Traci Thomas 0:00

Hi everybody. It's Traci. Welcome back to another episode of the stacks on a bridge. This is our bonus content for subscribers on sub stack and the stacks pack on Patreon. Today, we're doing something extra special. We're dropping it in your feeds a week early because I am joined by David Dennis, Jr, ESPN, personality, author of the movement made us to talk about Kendrick Lamar halftime show, I couldn't get enough of it. David wrote about it. We had to talk about it. So here we are giving you our hottest takes, our highest joys, our lowest lows, our loudest a minors. Okay, now it is time for our great American game breakdown show with none other than David Dennis Jr.

Okay, everybody, it's a bonus episode of the stacks, the stacks on a bridge, and it's a week early, and you're probably like, why is it a week early? Why am I getting this today? And the truth is, is because at the last possible moment, I decided that I had to talk about the Super Bowl, and I woke up Monday morning immediately went on social media. The first thing I see is David Dennis Jr, friend of the show, self promoting a piece he wrote in an scape about the halftime show. And I said, You know what? I want to talk about, the halftime show. So I text David, and I said, David, do we have to do this? And he says, Absolutely. And I said, but we can't release it when my episode normally goes up on February 20 or whatever, because people are going to be so over it. And I said, Can you do something next? 24 to 48 hours? And David said, Can I so here we are. Welcome back. My culture, pop culture, black culture, sports culture guru, David Dennis Jr, hello and

David Dennis Jr 1:59

fancy Mexican restaurant eating partners in crime

Traci Thomas 2:04

and and the hottest date I've had all year, we went out to a fancy Mexican restaurant in LA and ate the most expensive duck carnitas we could find. And you know what? People, they were, bomb. I regret nothing. I regret. I regret nothing, nothing at all. Hi, David,

David Dennis Jr 2:17

Hey. What's up? What is up? So we, I went to Super Bowl. You went. I went through Super Bowl exclusively to write about Kendrick Lamar. Halftime Show. Left after halftime so I could write this article or wrote it. It was like, it's gotta go up tonight. It's done sending my draft, and immediately fell asleep. And then the next morning hit, when it was up. Spread it to the world. And you know, you read it, lot of people read it, and there's a lot to talk about. I'm so excited.

Traci Thomas 2:44

I'm so excited. Okay, before we get to that, since you were at the Super Bowl, did you hear the booing of Taylor Swift?

David Dennis Jr 2:51

I did hear the booing of Taylor Swift, and it was, I mean, it was a, it was fine, it was fine. It was a, it was a Philadelphia person or the Philadelphia crowd, this is

Traci Thomas 3:03

what I'm saying. Okay, okay, I have to interrupt right now. Okay, everybody knows I hate Taylor Swift, so like, obviously, take it with a grain of salt. And I also hate Philadelphia sports fans. I know there's a lot of Philadelphia people who are members of the stacks back and I love you and I appreciate you, but if you are new to sports because of Taylor Swift. There's only one thing you need to know about sports fans, and that's Philadelphia. Fans are gonna fucking boo they're gonna boo their quarterback, they're gonna boo their coach, they're gonna boo their mom, and they're definitely gonna boo boo the most famous person associated with the team they're playing in the Super Bowl. This is nothing. This has nothing to do with Taylor do with Taylor Swift. This is Philadelphia fans being Philadelphia fans, period. Yeah.

David Dennis Jr 3:49

Well, Philadelphia notoriously booed Santa Claus. That's the story that everybody talks about about the Philadelphia fans, is that for one Christmas football game, Santa Claus came out there and everybody booed him or threw snowballs at him. And that's like the the notorious Philadelphia has this reputation of being that kind of fan base, and they lean into it, because everybody knows by the time they boot Santa Claus, right? And so the crowd in New Orleans, all across the city with probably 7030 Philadelphia, wow. Why? Yeah, one, because Kansas City goes to bowl every year. People, their fans, can't afford to go to Super Bowl every single year, right? Right? And Philadelphia is really excited to go. And so the the stadium, it was a, it was a Philadelphia Eagles home game. The entire They booed. The booze were loud, and the Chiefs have showed up. So yes, the the like, human mascot for the Chiefs was shown on the screen, and everybody booed because they're Eagles fans.

Traci Thomas 4:41

They're Eagles fans. I didn't, I was this is the problem when people who don't like sports want to show up because of something unrelated to sports, like you don't, you don't get to show up and make this like, Oh, poor Taylor Swift. It's like, No, babe. It's the Eagles. Last year, it was the 40 Niners my team. We're respectful, we don't boo. We're sort of bougie assholes at this point because they moved the team. From San Francisco. It's a nightmare, but we don't bill because we're a legacy team. We've got class, not those Philadelphia Eagles, yeah, monsters, yeah. That's all the Philadelphia teams, the baseball, the football, I mean, the basketball team, they remember trust the process, yeah, yeah. Did they ever not boo for one second? That is those entire, like, six years, they

David Dennis Jr 5:22

just continue booing. It's not like they were just like, ah, lonely poets hearts or whatever that album. They weren't doing that. Screw you. The Eagles are gonna win

Traci Thomas 5:31

exactly. Okay, I'm so glad, because I was getting so annoyed with all the takes about her, Okay, now that we're done with her, congratulations. Taylor Swift, You've stolen my podcast for me, did they? Did they boo Trump?

David Dennis Jr 5:43

So I was not in the arena when from the show Trump. So I was like, down in the media area when he was shown. So I don't know firsthand what the Trump situation was. He wasn't shown on camera while I was there. I got there right when the game starts. He wasn't showing on camera there. I heard it was kind of mixed. I heard there was like some booing, and they're different feeds that were used and stuff like that. That's what I heard. There were different, yeah, not totally sure what the what the vibes were with the with the Trump situation, okay? And there's a picture of the guy with the middle finger at Trump. Love that's going viral. It's years old. It wasn't from that game. Oh, really. Fake News,

Traci Thomas 6:20

devastating. Oh, boo, hiss. I've used that in my newsletter. Sorry, everybody, I don't fact check. I like you. Had to pump out my content after the Super Bowl, but I stayed to the end, then stayed later to hang out with my friends and went home and had to write. So I was about fact checking a single picture on the internet. But we're not here for this. We're here for Kendrick Lamar Duckworth performance at the halftime show. So I want to start high level. Okay, going into the show before we saw a single thing. What did you think we were going to get? What were you anticipating? You know, you have to write about it. You're telling a story to yourself. This is what I'm gonna see. What did you think was coming?

David Dennis Jr 7:04

So I knew that. So there was Drake stuff. Obviously there was, like, a lot of so the tension here, which is the tight rope you had to walk, was like, everybody wants to drink stuff, but this is like, the defining performance of my life. So I'm not gonna go up there and spend 15 minutes being like, Screw you, to like, one single Canadian dude, right? Like, I gotta, like, make this, you know, this is the thing that'll last forever, right?

Traci Thomas 7:26

So he did that with the pop out. He already did, he already did that. And he

David Dennis Jr 7:32

told me to be like, 20 years from now, like Kendrick Lamar, like, held up a poster of, like, Drake with the stupid shirt. And everybody has to, like, explain what, exactly what. So you had to, like, kind of do that. And then there, then there was the added element of like, oh, Donald Trump's going to be there. So like, what is Kendrick going to do here? So there was, like, all of that anticipation of, like, what is this going to look like? What is he going to say to Drake? Is he going to how many of these disc records he going to perform? There was that. And then there was like, is he going to sneak in some Trump stuff at some point? So there was, like, all of this in there. And then what are the surprise like, what's going to be the big surprise, right? Um, there are rumblings all over the week that there are surprise appearances that you're going to be shocked by. The first thing he does. He's got an all time great performance, things like that. So the bar was, like, really kind of crazy for Kendrick, and so I went into it, I was, I went into it like I had goosebumps. I was, like, my stomach was, like, I was, like, so nervous for, like, what was going to happen, and I could I just, like, it was, like, the game was, like, whatever. But like, once it started getting close to halftime, I got super duper nervous for it, okay,

Traci Thomas 8:39

so I was also so nervous. I there was, I was at a party at a friend's house. There were a lot of people, but I was sitting with this couple, and then this other dude, and we were all talking, and I kept being like, what are we gonna do? What are we and like, and, you know, so this whole Kendrick thing, what has been so fascinating is that everything he's done has felt so obvious in retrospect, yeah, but when you try to predict it. It's like, you can't even come close to the vision that he has. Yeah, so I'm sitting at this party predicting just I'm tapping into the worst part of me. Like I was like, what if he starts with poetic justice, which is the song with Drake, like, what if he starts with whacked out murals? Gets to the line where he's like, blah, blah, blah. I tried to make Lil Wayne proud, and then Lil Wayne pops out, because that's a real dagger to Drake as well. Plus that's like, I'm like, thinking of like, all these things. And then I'm like, what if he starts with not like us, gets all the way to the part where they do a minor, then cuts, does the entire show, and then goes back to not like us and ends with it. I'm like, That's diabolical, because Kendrick has, like, freed me to believe that some of my darkest, most petty fantasies are possible, right? Like, that's this has become, like, it's all possible if you hate someone enough, yeah, this

David Dennis Jr 9:52

became like, our own, like, murder fantasy that we could, like, book ourselves. We were just like, What is the worst thing? Like it, like it was. Like, picture the worst person that you know, or the person that you hate the most, and if you had 15 minutes to, like, ruin their life, what would you do? And the fact that so many of us just salivating at the thought and just like coming up with the worst possible thing, what if he's on faith, and he brings out the daughter,

Traci Thomas 10:17

the illegitimate I thought he was going to bring out Adonis,

David Dennis Jr 10:21

like, what if he brings out his children? What if he's like his mom, like, what if he does the worst thing that you could possibly do to another person at the Super Bowl? And it's like, actually, realistically, having 70,000 people yell a minor is probably enough.

Traci Thomas 10:41

You Yeah, yeah. I definitely was like, like, I was almost like, I mean, I was so impressed with it, but I was also like, could have been mean or honestly, like, I don't know, Kendrick, you're kind of falling off any little soft. Okay, so let's do the actual show. It's the the theme of the show is the great American game. It's a metaphor for the games we play as black people in America. It's a metaphor for a video game. We got a video game controller. It's obviously the great American game is football. The show opens. We get Samuel Jackson is the first thing we see. He says, Hi, I'm your uncle, Sam. I said, Oh,

Samuel L. Jackson 11:29

salutations, it's your uncle, Sam. And this is the great American game. We

Traci Thomas 11:38

cut to Kendrick alone on a GN x, which is the name of that newest album, and he does an unreleased song, yeah.

Kendrick Lamar 11:48

No more handshakes and hugs. The energy only second they threw us. Everybody must be judged. But this time, God only favoring us. 20 years in still, got their pen dedicated to a bit hard truth, and he can speak with a vision and talk predicate this time, this

Traci Thomas 12:03

fucking bat shit for the Super Bowl. It's

David Dennis Jr 12:06

nuts to do, to open up with a minute of a song that literally no people have heard,

Traci Thomas 12:10

not a single. I mean, we've, we've, I think we've heard a little. It was a snippet

David Dennis Jr 12:14

that was part of the g and x commercial, yes, which also the song is not on GS. What are you doing? It is a song that you put on YouTube for 30 seconds that 1/10 of your actual audience is probably heard. And you sit there and you do it. We don't really know the lyrics. We don't totally know what you're saying, and you're just rapping.

Traci Thomas 12:36

You're just squatted in a little ball, you're just squatted, and

David Dennis Jr 12:39

you're rapping, and all of these black people come out the car, like a clown car, as you're doing this, and it's like, what, what are we doing? Like, we don't we only other person who's really done music at their show that not everybody's totally It's Prince. Like, Prince came out and did like, he didn't just do the hits. He just, like, played his stuff. And Kenny Lamar opens up doing this, and I'm like, Oh, this dude is, like, he's going for something. He's like, trying to doing something. Yeah, yeah,

Kendrick Lamar 13:04

right now I deserve this on, like, tiramisu. We go body for body. I need you a body. I'm probably a better masses, really them bother nobody, but they running by me. If I got the green but not get the picture, if I had to sit you for hours in front of the room,

Traci Thomas 13:18

oh yeah. The whole vibe in the room when it started, was just like, what? What's he? What's he up to? What's happening? I I feel excited, but I still feel extremely nervous. Yeah, it's not like normal Super Bowls where it's like, you feel excited and nervous, and then it starts, and you're like, Okay, this is a Super Bowl performance. Like, great. This was like, Uh oh yeah, what's happening? Yeah, all of these people come out of this car. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. They're dressed in red, white and blue. It's just 7000 people come out of one tiny car, out of nowhere. They're doing clips. They're dancing. It's amazing. Then he goes into squabble up.

Kendrick Lamar 14:02

Life goes on, honey. Hug my babies woke up looking for the rock. Leap, hot, heat. Keep a horn on me that could box deep, hot feet. I want to ship the blueprint is by me. Mr. Get off. I get off.

Traci Thomas 14:15

We're happy. It's dancing. Samuel L Jackson comes back and he's like squabble. Law,

Samuel L. Jackson 14:28

reckless too ghetto. Mr. Lamar, do you really know how to play the game? Then tighten up.

Traci Thomas 14:39

Kendrick immediately goes into humble,

probably the most famous. Song, aside from not like us, that he that definitely, that he did, but that he has, maybe, all right, is slightly more famous. It's those two, yeah, humble

David Dennis Jr 15:10

is like, in terms of charts, like, way more famous than than any other song. All right, is like, a culturally significant song. But Humble is like, Deacon, uh, before this, it would be like, that would be this. That would be his show closer. If he did this like last year, it would be helpful, right,

Traci Thomas 15:26

right? And any Scott, I don't know, I don't know how many, but he's got probably 3534 I would say, was an even number black men dressed in red, white and blue, in the shape of the American flag. I have to tell you, David, I don't know how it read in the room, because I want to ask you about that in the dome, the apparently Caesar dome, now, but what a fucking joke, the super dome. But on camera, I screamed, this is, I mean, okay, there's a lot of political stuff we're going to talk about whatever. I do not think we're talking enough about the choreography and camera work in this show. It was stunning, stunning their heads, the arm gesture, the part where half of them put their arm up, but it's like a different half, some of them have their hands on their pockets, like the shot is so clean, the angle is totally perfect for the visual, they are moving perfectly. Kendrick is moving very well with them. When he does, I was like, Oh. I mean, I kept saying, oh my god, oh my god, over and over, under my breath, and I just turn to my friend and I go, it's so clean, it's so tight, like, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. How did it read in the room?

David Dennis Jr 16:38

No, I was high up, you know, in the media area. So not a great angle, not a but I'm for that. I'm looking down. I see the flag immediately, like you see it, it's clear. I'm like, Oh, this is an American. Like, okay, we're doing, like, this is, to me humble. Well, first of all, Samuel Jackson comes out when he's out there. I'm like, there was, like, a real jump, like, jump scare. It was like, Yeah, this is Samuel Jackson. I saw an old guy sort of setting up. And I was just thought it would be like, just some guy be like, Man, welcome to the startup now, yeah, and so. But it was like, right? And then I saw the flag, and I was like, okay, like, buckle up. Like, he's, he's doing something. He's gonna, like, we're having a commentary. We got the full thing. We got black men in the shape of the American flag, Kendrick in the middle of it, you know, black male, you know, country, building the country together. You know, building the country. Him at the center of it. We built this country. All that type of stuff is there. And it's like, alright, he is this because, because the thing is, like, his videos, everything he's done, has had this intentionality to it, this like, directorial sort of brilliant to it. And it's like, how do you do something like that at the Super Bowl, right? And it's like, at the very least now I'm like, okay, they're going to try to make this as cinematic as humanly possible for the Super Bowl. All right, let's see what he does.

Traci Thomas 17:53

And I feel like, I feel like, historically, I think if you take Rihanna out of the conversation in the last 10 years the Super Bowl, even the good shows are sort of a mess. Yeah, like, there's just a lot going on you. It's not clean. You don't know where to look. It's very unclear what's happening. I mean, Usher show was, from a directorial standpoint, was a nightmare. Like, my brain was like, where's Usher? Why is he on the floor? With all these people, none of their outfits match. This is a mess. And then you get Kendrick, and it's just like, this is the cleanest thing I've ever seen. This is like, I mean, I just, I honestly can't believe it, because you don't expect that kind of cleanliness, of like choreography and visual from a rapper either. Usually it's like, just a bunch of people on stage, kind of like running around, talking, if you go to a rap concert, sometimes it was just like, a hell of dudes, and there was, like, the one guy who's in charge, and I'm like, five of his friends were just like, yeah, yeah. Like, so I was just like, not thinking. And up until that point, while it's still visually pretty clear, up until that point, it is a lot of guys running around, like, when he's up on stage, Dancing with the girls, the guys are guys in white are down, sort of just like having a good time dancing, vibing out. And then that's when, you know, he's like, this is ghetto or whatever. But the cleanliness and like the person, like, the lines were just so tight, everybody hit their mark there, in a way that I was just stunned. And from that point on, I was like, Oh, yes, this is an elevated experience. Like, this is not just a concert for Kendrick Lamar. Like, there's clearly a story here.

David Dennis Jr 19:28

Yeah, there's, yeah, the cleanliness is really important because, like, when you are watching it, you know, they're manipulating the camera so you can see him pop up different places. When you're watching it live, you're seeing him move from place to place, like the peekaboo thing he does peek a boo, yes. And he, like, raises up to the camera. It

Traci Thomas 19:43

doesn't read in person, right? It doesn't really funny. Our whole room

David Dennis Jr 19:47

burst out, right? It's like, crazy. But then, like, also they're doing all the stars and, like, they're walking in a circle around to get upstate, and somehow scissor, like, when she approaches, gets. In the perfect spot in this rotating circle to where, when he gets up on there, it's her turn, and then he gets back on the start, and then they're doing, they move up to, like, briefly, and then he's in another spot. So you kind of see them live skedaddling from place to place. So you lose some of that like, Oh, you're here, right? But you're just seeing the precision of like, okay, this happened, I gotta be right in my place. And there was no, there was like, no real scramble. There was like, no, like, you don't see you never saw him, like, running to get to where he needed to be. It was just like, I'm here. Alright, next spot, I'm here. It was like, everybody just moved with this intentionality. That was like, Oh, how long have y'all been practicing this thing? Because, like, I think you're the point you're making. The choreography is so underrated here. Like, we think about, like, we don't think about rappers in choreography, right? And for them to do that is, like, just so brilliant. And it

Traci Thomas 20:51

felt like the appropriate choreography for Kendrick Lamar. It wasn't like he had 75 like, booty dancers or, like, 75 acrobats, or what, like, it was like, this is the exact right kind of movement for this music and this person, whether it's like a bunch of dudes, like getting hyphy or whatever, like having a blast, or, like, during peek a boo, when they're just like, rocking, yeah, grabbing their crotch, I was like, This is the greatest thing I've ever seen. And then they go to the other part of people, and they're like, kind of like walking really close to the ground. Yeah, and all of this stuff is just like, I can't imagine these people moving any other way. Like, kind of what I said before with Kendrick, it feels so obvious in the moment that you don't even give it credit. But if you would ask me what he would have, I never would have said he was gonna have, like, backup dancers doing this super tight, small movement in humble or, like, I just, I would have thought it was more chaotic than what we got. And I think, like, it was so good, people aren't even talking about it because it felt so obvious.

David Dennis Jr 21:50

Yeah, like, there's a moment, I think, where it's DNA, where he's like, like walking and like doing this, like chimney sweep movement with his arms. And it's like, like, you've never seen Kevin Lamar do that. He would. He's never going to do that again. It's like as much dancing as a rapper is going to do, yeah, while performing, unless, of course, like a male rapper, like, let's talk about meg or Cardi B or something like that. Yes. Like, for him to do these, like, arm gestures and this, like sliding thing while rapping, while rapping, like, that's never been Kendrick Lamar thing. Kendrick Lamar has been a rapper, and for him to integrate that and do it so perfectly, and not lose breath, not lose his lines, not lose any of that stuff. Because there was no, there was not a single moment of like, lip thinking in this entire thing, like he's rapping

Traci Thomas 22:32

true. I wasn't sure. I was thinking the only part that he wasn't actually, wasn't actually him, was when during the Luther song, the singing part of the song. Yeah, I think maybe he didn't sing that.

David Dennis Jr 22:44

I think it's possible. I think, yeah, everything else

Traci Thomas 22:47

was, yeah. I mean, you could hear it because he had plosives on the mic, right? You could literally hear it. Or, like, there's a part where, during greatest of man at the garden, at the end, when he like, doesn't, I can't remember what the line that he like drops it off at but it like, it's like, greatest of all time, and it like, doesn't come all the way out of his mouth. And I was like, oh, because you're really doing this,

Kendrick Lamar 23:06

put the points in the game. I speak ashamed of me. It's important. I deserve it all. Because why you think you deserve the greatest? He

Traci Thomas 23:14

said he trained for it. He said he was, like, running like crazy to, like, get ready for it. I could

David Dennis Jr 23:20

imagine. I mean, it's hard to do anyway. And like, you're doing these different like, you never see a rapper move in that massive amount of space, like it was probably 60 yards of like, from the g and x to like cater corner to where they were for all the stars. Like he's moving circle across a football field. Like he moved across a literal football field of space, which we do not see rappers he has no reason to ever do. Like, you know that meme was, like, there's no Kevin Gates song that requires him to do this, and he's like, jumping in the air, like, there's no ken in the mark song that requires him to run 60 yards, unless you're a Super Bowl, right?

Traci Thomas 23:53

And like, there were so few moments that weren't him, he that he wasn't on Mike, right? Like, it's like, there was the moment where he where he talks, which I want to talk about, where he talks to the four, like black women, about, not like us. And then he's like, slow it down for a second. And then they do, like a little dance, and then sizza sings, and that's like, really the only part he's not involved in vocally, when says that, when they get to all the stars. Sizza does sing her little part, but he's also had just finished rapping, and then quickly starts up again. Like, I think she only gives him, like, six counts of eight there. Like, it's not that much of the song. So that section, it was probably 45 seconds, maybe a minute where he's not doing something, and the rest of the time he's on Mike, yeah,

David Dennis Jr 24:40

it's, it's amazing. Like, as as we're talking about this, I'm like, definitely, I think the the previous most obvious person for this was Jay Z, right? Like a rapper, like the first rapper would do this would be Jay Z, when the rock nation thing came through, it's like, oh, Jay she's going to do the halftime show at some point. Because I think those coinciding with them being in New York, and it's like, Jay Z. Ain't doing this. Daisy gonna get on stage. He's gonna wear tux. He's gonna like, do his rapping, and other people are gonna like, move around him on a very, like, small stage. Jay Z ain't running. Jay Z, not doing the chimney sweep.

Traci Thomas 25:11

Thank you. Not executing choreo, yeah. Not at all. Not at

David Dennis Jr 25:16

all. And this is like, a different standard of what you would thought a rap concert was going to be at the Super

Traci Thomas 25:20

Bowl. And even, I mean, aside from Mamie the chimney sweep move, he never looks uncomfortable or corny at any point. I mean, this man is on stage in bell bottoms. He looks cool as hell, like that's wild. Also, like, there was so much of this that I'm like, this shouldn't work. Yeah, this shouldn't work.

David Dennis Jr 25:40

And he's like, five four. He's like, a tiny little man in bell bottoms.

Traci Thomas 25:43

So small. Okay, okay. I want, okay, I want to talk about the bell bottoms really quickly. So obviously, the first thing when he stands up from the squat, I was just like, Oh my God, he's dressed up as me in 2001 like, I was like, it's my time. A low rise bell bottom. But do you because we know everything he doesn't is intentional, and I have this like sort of hair brain theory that the reason he wore those particular pants at that length, because they were obviously not hemmed very long, was to play up the fact that Drake's one big diss on him back when they were actually still kind of fighting well before Kendrick really weighed in before euphoria comes out, is like, you're small and you can't do push ups. And I have this theory that Kendrick was like, Look how small I am. Make me look even smaller, like, make me look even shorter, so that I can dunk on this fool even harder, because he looked especially small in the Super Bowl. I felt like usually he doesn't always look small, even though he is. But I was like, Oh, that's a small man, yeah.

David Dennis Jr 26:44

And, and, you know, maybe it was the the pants covered up his shoes, because the shoe size was a big part of it.

Traci Thomas 26:51

The shoe size, like, I just felt like it was like, I'm like, I felt like, you know, everything's so intentional. There's the A minor necklace, there's the jacket that says Gloria. And Gloria is a reference to his pen. He calls his pen like glory or something like, that's like his great, his greatest relationship in his life is the glory of his pen, and Gloria as penance. I don't know. I don't know that's some shit from cole Kush, not. I don't know Colby doing the most and his and the back of the jacket said, PG, laying that. And that's their like. That's their

David Dennis Jr 27:18

like. It did not say Poland. There was, there was, like, people

Traci Thomas 27:21

thought it said Florida. They thought it was a Florida Gator jacket. I was like, Oh, my God, what that

David Dennis Jr 27:27

was? People who said it, it was Poland, because Poland, like, stood up against Trump at some point or something like that, as a message to Trump. And it's like, no, that's not what it is.

Traci Thomas 27:35

Oh, even, even if that was true, like we just said, Kendrick is too clean to be messy, like that. Like, like, Poland makes no sense in an American right? You know what I mean? Like, it's just nonsense, um, PG laying on the back, and the A also is the A in the PG Lang, like, right? Yeah, logo, but it was a minor, yeah, we'll give it to him, I think, right? I mean,

David Dennis Jr 28:02

the man wore a Canadian tuxedo. Who knows what goes on in his diabolical AFI. The funniest

Traci Thomas 28:09

thing is, so my best friend and I, we talked about this last night. I was like, we're gonna record like, what did you think? Like, let's talk about a little bit. I need a debrief. And she was saying that. She was like, does it? She was like, I feel like Kendrick always wears bell bottoms. I was like, No, he doesn't. She was like, I don't know why, but like, those didn't feel weird to me on him. I was like, because he looked so good at that. I'm like, yeah, it was like, stunning. It was stunning to see this man, this little man, in oversized bell bottoms, and be like, okay, and

David Dennis Jr 28:37

he's doing, like, don't hate it. Compton, like, street and bell bottoms talking about, like, you know, I'm the greatest of all time, and he's got the hood, he's got the dudes behind it, but gold teeth on the corner, and he's doing, he's rocking these bell bottoms. It's, it's incredible. It's incredible. One of the things you do when you know you're, you know, you can't miss just like a he's just like a thing. He's on a heater. He's just like, I'm gonna chuck it from half court. Give me the

Traci Thomas 29:04

bell box. Clay Thompson in 2015

he's just throwing them up. Yes.

Okay, I don't even know where we are in the show. I've already lost it. Oh, well, we've sort of jumped around. But I want to get to in the show, though. I want to talk about the Samuel L Jackson thing before we get to the back half of the show, okay? Because I feel like part of the metaphor that people haven't been talking about in the video game, they've been like, oh, the set was a video game. It's a game. But I felt like Samuel L Jackson was, what do they call it? An NP, NPC, a non playing, non player character in the video game. You know how like, in video games, sometimes you'll like, go, like, complete a level, like, complete the world, and then the guide comes up, and it's like, come with me. Like, now we have to go slay warrior. I felt like that's who he was supposed to be, not just that he's Uncle Sam, but that he's like, guiding him, like Uncle Sam is telling. Him how to play the game and that he's like, part like that. The whole thing is inside a video game, and not just that. Like, it's a game, yeah, I'm waiting if it read like that to you, but I'm like that to me. So the video

David Dennis Jr 30:11

game part of it was, like, I was into that later, you know? I was like, Okay, I see the controller, all that stuff. Like, to me, he it was more like Samuel L Jackson as like Hendricks consciousness, you know, like the subconscious, like talking to him, telling him to do this, do that. But also a stand in for like the American voice, right? Of like, you know, those are the obvious things that are there.

Samuel L. Jackson 30:41

Yo, culture, Chico, score keeper, deduct, one life.

David Dennis Jr 30:52

The video game thing is interesting because, like, they're, they are in the game, you know, and and all. And it was interesting. All of these things could come off very, corny, you know, like, they could all come off extremely corny. Like, Hendrick Lamar, you know, has, has had a journey. He's had a journey through his artistic expression of calling Lucifer Lucy, you know, like those, like, you know, like he's, he's, like, tries it, he goes for it. And I think that all of these things could have really gone left if executed a different way. Like he's Uncle Sam, and he's like, doing it could be like, it's Samuel Jackson's Uncle Sam. Like, that's very obvious. And it could, it can go left. And the the restraint that it takes not to have or editing, really, to not be like, Let's nail this other part of it, to make it super obvious. Or like, have video game sounds, or whatever you know, you want to do in there that, that all of that stuff was cut out, yeah?

Traci Thomas 31:43

Well, I think, I mean, I agree, I think that it was really tight. I think also, like, Samuel Jackson is probably one of the least corny people, yeah, in Hollywood. Like, I think he's one of those people. You see him, you're just like, that's Samuel Jackson. Yeah, that's a real dude, right there, right like, and he's a, he's a real movie star, like he, he can, he can do it all. And so I think that grounds the whole thing, because you're just like, it's fucking sick. Like, this is so cool. Yes, he's cool. But I also think to your point about him being the conscience, I don't think he's the conscience. I think the four black women are the conscience, okay? And they are the like. And I think with America metaphor, of course, black women, they're trying to help you. They're trying to protect you, they're trying to take care of you. They're going with you on your journey. They hear you, they see you, they do what you ask. Like, I think that that's because it's like, the flag is all black men. And then we get the women, and they're like, are you really gonna do it? Like, okay. And then he's like, we wanna slow it down. He's like, Okay, we're gonna slow it down for you. Then they come back, and then as soon as he decides to do it, they're right in formation with him doing the dance move, like, fuck it. Let's go. And so I felt like they were like the angel devil on the shoulder kind of thing, and that Samuel L Jackson is actually the antagonist in the story, like that. He's the one who's fucking with him. Ladies,

Kendrick Lamar 32:59

I want to make a move. I want to perform a favorite song, but, you know, they love the suit. Yeah, that song. Oh, maybe I think about, know what? I slow it down. Say, Ladies, do me this solid. Oh,

Samuel L. Jackson 33:15

you lost your damn mind. Thanks. I

Traci Thomas 33:25

mean, in my in my vision, he's the guide of the situation. Like, he's not the main boss. I think America is the main boss, or whatever. But he's definitely like, Okay, you lose a life. Or like, okay. Are you sure you know how to play the game? Like, in the way that those voices and video games are always like, sort of assholes to you. It's like, oh, you lost. Better night, better luck next time. Like, even, do you remember that? Like, shooting bird game, Duck Hunt. Duck Hunt wasn't there? Like, wasn't the duck? Like, rude to you if you lost, I do not can't remember. I think the duck would be like, Haha, you missed me. Like, better luck next time. And I feel like that's to me, that's how I read him, as far as, like, the video game metaphor, or not the video game the literal video game interpretation. I think the metaphor is very clearly America, what black people have to do, which is why, like, you lose a life is so, you know, with such, like, a clean line, like, it makes so much sense. Obviously, the you're too ghetto, like, all of that. Um, okay, so we go from, well, really quickly, really quickly. I loved the man at the garden part, yeah, where he where they had, like, the beat boxing guys. I don't know if those guys were actually miked up at all. But I love that. And it's an homage to Pimp A Butterfly cover where he's like, with all his friends in front of the White House, which I thought also was a rough like, I think if you know Kendrick and you get that reference, you're immediately like, it invokes the White House, yeah, even if you don't see it and then Samuel Jackson's like, you need to slow it down. On or No, Kendrick says, I'm gonna slow it down after then sizza comes out, yeah,

oh, I was just okay on Susan, she sounded beautiful. She looked beautiful. I don't think they set her up right to really like I don't think that part lands as well as

David Dennis Jr 35:47

So this was was interesting about the so the mic in the stadium, like you could not always hear everything Kendrick was doing, right? So I remember, because I was there with our with friend of the pod, Justin Tinsley, and so we hear. So even when these tenders, like they might sue, like, I was like, I was like, tense. I think he said something about suing, like, something, you know, like it wasn't always, like, clear. What he was saying came through perfect, like she sounded angelic, like it was just like, there that was more. I think the watching it, watching it on camera, the entire show, watching on camera, came off better than watching it live, right? Yeah, except for sizzle. Like, for some reason, when you watch it on camera, the voice was kind of muted. It wasn't given that. But when she came in, it was like, whoa. This is like, booming voice. She took over the whole arena. The crowd went crazy when sizzle popped up. Like, like, you know, you did kind of didn't know if there were no scissors and all that crowd went nuts for her and like it was a real, sort of like superstar moment that, I think, out of all the stuff that happened live versus camera, that is what got lost the most.

Traci Thomas 36:51

That's interesting because I because, yes, on camera, it sort of felt like it didn't fit the story. She didn't have a part in the American game, like it didn't feel like she was telling us. It felt like the one part of the story that was unclear, like the narrative just sort of stopped. They tried to make it make sense by being like, yeah, that's what we want to hear, like you and her, like, slow it down. We love that. Real cool. But in the moment, it didn't feel like narratively, I still can't really tell you why they did that, besides, like, because people like her, like, because, I mean, I can tell you why they did it, because of the concert and the tour and everything, and like, that's his home girl, whatever. But like, as far as the story goes, it felt the weakest to me. She did sound beautiful. She always looks beautiful. She moves beautifully, like, she's easy to love. So it's not, it's no shots at her. It's more shots that, like, that's the one part of the direction. I just was like, Yeah,

David Dennis Jr 37:44

you know. And I think, I think that is sort of like, throughout Kendrick's career, these singles sort of make it difficult to fit into the narrative. Like, think about poetic justice with Drake. Like that had nothing to do with good kid Matthew. Like, he calls his mom, and she's like, the mom and dad are, like, kind of flirting, or whatever. And then they're like, we're, we're listening to Janet Jackson. And then it's like, then it's really, like, we have a vanity Jackson sample. You're doing a song with Drake, the hottest rapper in the world, right now, right Throw it. Throw it on a goddamn apple. Like you figure it out. Make it work. Make it work. So you got scissor, you got Luther, which is the hottest song, other than not like us. You got all the stars which

Traci Thomas 38:21

you think Luther is. Oh, of

David Dennis Jr 38:24

the on the of GN X, yeah. Luther is. Luther is, like the Instagramable. Everybody's Instagram captain is not

Traci Thomas 38:32

even in my top five on the album.

David Dennis Jr 38:34

Oh, everybody loves Luther. Luther the crowd going as much as anything else that album. It's like, TV off, and squabble up and Luther are, like the triumvirate of the album, Dodger blue. I mean, sure,

Traci Thomas 38:48

sure. But like, hate the Dodgers that. I love that song,

David Dennis Jr 38:51

but it's not like, it's not like people are that the song that people are going up for, like, you played Luther in the crowd. Everybody's like, Oh, we're singing along to Luther. That is like, wow, I don't feel that way. Luther, like you got these. They had to do Luther. They had to do

Traci Thomas 39:04

Luther. Well, I know they had to do Luther because of her. No, it's

David Dennis Jr 39:08

a it's the song is like, everybody

Traci Thomas 39:11

loves Luther. If she's not there, they don't have to do Luther. I think they have to do all of the stars, which was

David Dennis Jr 39:19

another, the crowd went crazy for all the stars. I was like, the crowd went nuts for and I was like, that's why he had to do it so fine. I

Traci Thomas 39:43

I guess the question is, does the crowd know any Kendrick songs like besides that, it's so it's like, it's hard when it's rap, because I don't know what the quote, unquote crowd knows. And the crowd at the Super Bowl is not a regular crowd. I mean, they're the richest. They're the. Most plugged in, even if you're there and you're not a rich person, you're probably there because your company, you work at Instagram or whatever, like, Are you a die hard Kendrick fan? I don't know. Are you even sort of a Kendrick fan? Or do you just like the beef because you someone like you're black, they're anointed to you, nobody?

David Dennis Jr 40:15

Yeah, it's the Super Bowl crowd, not just for the game itself. Are easily the worst crowds of anything that ever like I saw do, but

Traci Thomas 40:24

they're also the worst crowds for the game too. They

David Dennis Jr 40:26

all the worst crowds for the game, the worst crowd I saw doji Saturday night, and she did three songs, and I loved it, but towards the end, she was like, Alright, let's get out of here. And DJ was like, it sounds like a funeral here. And they just like, left like, nobody cared. Nobody cared about I they had a Super Bowl thing here in Atlanta, and two, I think 2019 was when it was here. 2018 something like that. I was at a place where future performed, but it was like all blocked off, like within 30 feet of the stage, like corporate people to have tables, and future did, like an hour long set. Nobody cared. Like the Super Bowl, like all star, weakness this weekend. If this happens at all star, the crowds goes nuts. Everybody knows every single word that's Super Bowl is a whole different, whole different, whole different pack of, like, rich, rich, different kind

Traci Thomas 41:16

of rich. Yes, yeah, it's a different level of wealthy, yeah. So I'm like, okay, so they love that. To me, it's the weakest part of the show, both narratively and just also, like energy. I just was so excited, and then I know they always slow it down. Usher famously did 75 minutes of sexy time jams, which like, okay, Usher, but also like, okay, it's the fucking Super Bowl. Samuel Jackson comes back. Is like, this is great. You're great. And then Kendrick, then Kendrick comes back, and this is really when things start to really get moving. As you can tell, I love Kendrick Lamar in general, pre Drake beef. I also have famously been on the record hating Drake long before Kendrick started this, I was on NPR talking shit about Drake, like I have been here. I have done that, but this was the moment for me. This was the moment before we

David Dennis Jr 42:12

get there, before we get there. Euphoria, oh my

Traci Thomas 42:16

god, I forgot he did euphoria. Oh my god, that was before

David Dennis Jr 42:21

you and it took me a second to like he did euphoria, and he starts rapping on the rapping log. And I'm like, wait a minute. What's happening?

Traci Thomas 42:51

But he didn't do the part that he should have done. I hate the way that you walk. I hate the way he didn't do

David Dennis Jr 42:57

it wasn't like really Drake related euphoria, but he did euphoria, and he did it so in addition to doing a one minute song that nobody's heard, he did the middle part of like, he did the preamble, yeah, do a six minute disc record with no hook in The middle. Like, but what are we doing here? Dude?

Kendrick Lamar 43:19

Show with me. Have you ever

played? Have you ever Okay, let's play. Have you ever walk your enemy down with a puzzle? Me is k, d, o, t,

Traci Thomas 43:40

my husband, Mr. Stacks, he's obsessed with the beef, like he's been on all he's like in the Reddits and in the blogs, like he's like, deep, deep, okay, he sent, we weren't at the same party. He sent me a text message of his predictions of what he would do. And I have to tell you, it was shockingly close. He had, he had euphoria, he had peekaboo. I would not have guessed peekaboo. Yeah, peekaboo, but I would not have guessed that he had peekaboo. He had, I just think he didn't have man at the garden, but he had everything else. And he had all right, because I think we all thought, yeah, yeah. But I was like, how did you have euphoria? Like, how did you

David Dennis Jr 44:21

this is, this is like, there's two like tangents that are driving me crazy. That one that you guys go to two separate, two Bowl parties, which is a fat city thing, like, this is the first year we've ever done. This is like, interesting, interesting move. And I've learned that. I'm not totally sure how old Mr. Stacks is, but this is, like the Drake and Kendrick thing is, like 40, like 40s white man, Roman Empire, like, the obsession that, like 40 or white dudes have, dracon Kendrick, like, researching this is, like, one of the things that it like, one of the more fascinating things coming out of this, like the Reddit. Reds are exclusively 40. Like what I do ESPN Radio. I've been doing ESPN Radio. Of this recording tonight with my man saslow, who is a 40 something year old white man who was like, okay, every radio show you together. He's like, David, tell me. Tell me everything that's going on with with Drake kitchen. My kids love it. Don't understand it. Explain it to it like this is like, become Oh, this has replaced the Roman Empire for them. So

Traci Thomas 45:22

for for Mr. Stacks, who is 40, exactly it. He's not explain it to me. He's coming home from work being like, being like, Look at this. So do you remember that one part where Kendrick says, my dog? He says dog. He pronounces it more like dog with a W, and the W stands for, and I'm like, what it's like? He, like, he's creating, he's like, listening to all these he's taking it all in. He's computing it, the whole thing. So he really, like, predicted. I'm like, Oh, you guys, like, must have been on the blog. Yeah, anyways. But yes, no, he does euphoria, which is stunning. Yeah, couldn't

David Dennis Jr 46:02

believe it. I think the euphoria was the chimney sweep song. I think that might have been what it was like. He has a whole choreography that rush into the camera, and he's doing euphoria. I could not believe he was doing euphoria.

Traci Thomas 46:14

And euphoria comes before the slow part, right, right, yes, right. Because after the slow part, it's into, not like us, yeah, because

David Dennis Jr 46:21

it, because it was you. There was like a there was like a three minute stretch of like, stuff. I couldn't believe that was happening. I couldn't believe he did euphoria. And I could not believe he did man the garden, like, could not believe he did those, those two moments. I was like, Oh, he's just making art that he feels like doing right now. And it was like, I though I made a loud the loudest noise I made was when he started doing euphoria, and then when he did man the garden like that stretch like my mind was blown at that. Those

Traci Thomas 46:49

are not the loudest noises I made. They're the loudest noises I made. Are coming up

David Dennis Jr 46:53

yelling a minor,

Traci Thomas 46:56

yes, definitely. I basically lost my voice in the last three and a half minutes of the show. Like, I went home that night and was like, and then I immediately turned it on, because I taped it at home. So I immediately went home, my mom was watching the kids, and I was like, Do you want to see it? She didn't get to see it. And I was like, so this is funny, because at this and I felt like, I felt like, Mr. Sax, he comes back and he's like, talking to his conscience. Ladies, don't mess this.

Kendrick Lamar 47:30

Oh no, it's a cultural divide. I'm gonna get it on the floor. You really about to do it? 40 acre, send a mule. This is bigger than the music. You really about to do it? Yeah, they tried to rig the game, but you can't fake influence, and then it's just like they

walk around like peas.

Traci Thomas 47:59

I was shocked, because I was like, Is this the end? Because I thought he would end. I mean, I just assumed he was going to end with it. Okay, like that was in my mind going in. That was the one thing that I knew for sure, which obviously I was wrong. But I was like, Oh, he's anyway. I was like, Oh, my God, we're at the end. Mr.

David Dennis Jr 48:14

Tax knew he knew better. Mr. Stacks,

Traci Thomas 48:17

like, wrote the playlist. He was like, This is what we're doing. He actually directed it. He's dancing with the ladies. They're coming down. They're doing their little two step that I love so much. And then they go to this circle shot, which I know does not play great in person, right? But this is another staging thing where you don't even appreciate how fucking cool what you're seeing is, because it's so cool. You're just like, this is the obvious thing, where he it's following him around, and everyone around him is dancing, and you're like, going around the circle. I love this shot. Oh no wait, I lied. That's Hold on. I'm backwards. He dances with the ladies. Then he does say Drake, I

Kendrick Lamar 49:05

hear you like them young. You better go to zero, black one to any love, just make sure you have your little sister problem. That's

Traci Thomas 49:14

the first loud scream I do. Yeah, everyone in the room, we scream, ah, we know we're getting close to the pedophile word. We're not sure what's gonna happen. This is the tension. He does not say pedophile. He does say, say Drake, I hear you like I'm young, right? Better not go to cell block one. Everyone holds up a one. And then everybody does the heart. Hands.

David Dennis Jr 49:33

Well, everybody does, I hear you like I'm young. Everybody bends over.

Traci Thomas 49:38

Oh yes. It does low hands,

David Dennis Jr 49:41

like toddler,

Traci Thomas 49:43

like, like a child at my knee, hand pressure that everybody goes really tall for that are not going to sell block one that everybody does those, like, corny ass heart hands. Kendrick even does a single heart hand because he's got the mic in the other hand. I die for this choreography because it's just so mean, it's so. Overall party got

Kendrick Lamar 50:00

the party playing with his nose down Bucha got a weird case YC around, certified, never boy certified.

Traci Thomas 50:09

And then the city of New Orleans, maybe all the way to Baton Rouge, down into the Gulf of Mexico America, as far west as Texas, at least as far east as the east side of Florida says, Michael,

Kendrick Lamar 50:23

ain't you tired? You're trying to strike a chord, and it's probably a minor.

They not like us.

David Dennis Jr 50:35

No, is it deafening in the room? Okay, so again, Philadelphia crowd there, the Eagles win, 1 million to six, right? It's the final score of the game. I There were, like, a minor was louder than, like, half the touchdowns, yes, in the game, like the first touchdown was the ground shook, like when they went up, when they bat my home through a second interception. Like the ground chuck. I don't think there was anything else lighter, louder than a minor in that. It was like it was definitely loud, especially because you've got music playing in the background. Everybody's doing it and hold it. It was like everybody was waiting for a minor the entire time. And it did not disappoint.

Traci Thomas 51:18

It was incredible on television again, another extremely loud scream, yes. Then we get the circle moment where they're dancing in a circle. And then cut to Serena motherfuckin Williams, yeah, the goat, yeah. And I wrote about this in my sub stack. You wrote about it in your piece. She's cryp, walking, sea walking. The moment I see it, my first thought is Wimbledon. Olympics. Wimbledon Stadium at the Olympics. That's my first thought. It does not occur to me that she dates Drake, that she had dated Drake. My first thought is Wimbledon, right? I understand that this is a sports brain person, but after watching and then going on social media, everyone's talking about the Drake part, and I'm like, but you guys, it's the they called her glorifying ghetto culture, right? They called her, they call her glorifying gang culture. They called her, get her. They said she was, it was basically nappy headed hoes too, yes. Like it was, they were horrible to her. They destroyed her. And for her, our queen, the greatest athlete of all time, I argue, I would argue her and some others, she's in the conversation, certainly to be on stage at the Super Bowl in her tennis skirt, which, again, nobody commented on but everybody else had on pants. Nobody, none of the other women had on dresses or squirts, not even scissor. Everybody else had on pants. We see her beautiful legs. We see her fucking having the time of her life up there. And yes, she is Drake's ex, which is incredible. And Drake has had her name in his mouth for extremely, too

David Dennis Jr 53:00

long, way too long, and defended her in that in

Traci Thomas 53:04

the song. That was my second thought after I thought of Wimbledon, my second thought was, oh, he does say You better not speak on Serena, right? You better not speak on Sabrina. I love it, um, but I just felt like people really missed the layers on that one. And again, it's sort of like the Taylor Swift thing. It's like, if you're not a sports person, maybe you don't know this. But to me, that was my instant first thought was like, holy shit.

David Dennis Jr 53:27

So this moment I after, when this moment happened, I said, I'm never going to a halftime show live, because I did not seize Serena until the end of the until after the show. Nobody saw camera in the stadium. Did not pick her up. There was no, I didn't, I didn't know she was there. Tended to know I we were walking to the media room. We did a video right after, but walk to the media room, I was like, here's my feelings on it. Like, because I, I there were, like, so much of it was lost live. So I'm so I'm leaving there, and I'm like, where, you know, like, you got, you got Samuel Jackson, you I missed so much of I saw the flag, but I missed so much of the nuance, so much the commentary, so much of the other stuff he was doing, so much of what the camera was telling, the story, and all that stuff that, like, is lost, right? And so, and I didn't see Serena. So my first reaction when I when I'm leaving, I'm like, okay, but like, where, where was the meat? Like, what was, you know, what was going on here? And I get to the thing, and I'm like, and I see the thing of, like, Serena get it, like, it was, like a BTS of her getting ready Beyonce. And I was like, I was like, what? Like, I was like, I thought she was cheering on Kendrick from her house, or something like that. And I see her on the and I was like, what the hell I was like, I'm never going to watch anything like this live again. How did I miss Serena Williams Live? Nobody in the stadium saw it. There was nothing. It was just in the little corner camera picked it up. There was she was not on the screen at any point in the stadium. Everybody missed it. I missed it. I wanted to flip over a table.

Traci Thomas 54:53

Devastating. I'm sorry for you, because, yes, that was such a highlight. Yeah. Then after that. We get muster. I go

Kendrick Lamar 55:02

by the name of k, dot. Dot, kind of okay, llama, Mr. Morale. This is g and x. We come all the way from Compton California, doing party with y'all. Let me hear you say,

Traci Thomas 55:17

incredible. Loved it. The joy the black boy, Joy. That was so joyous. And then we get, turn his TV off, turn his TV off, turn the shit off, or whatever, finger turning off the game and then it says, game over in the stands,

Kendrick Lamar 55:29

turn his TV off, TV off, turn his TV off, turn his TV off, turn his

Traci Thomas 55:36

flawless execution. That's the scream at that. That was the loudest scream the game over. I was like,

David Dennis Jr 55:42

Yeah, that's it. It's done. I'm done Drake. It's over. We're done with over. I have like, a laid your body out and into like, and for the for the townspeople to come and look at that's what I've done. Yes.

Traci Thomas 55:54

He's like, this is, this is the Wake Yes. Okay, I want to reference one quick easter egg for those of you who are like Mr. Sax and have been deep, have not been deep in who have not you know he was wearing those black gloves from 616, in LA, yes. Okay. OJ, gloves, yes. I liked that moment. Uh huh.

David Dennis Jr 56:13

He was everything. Everything made everything tell the story. There was nothing that was gonna say,

Traci Thomas 56:17

yeah, yeah. It was a not. For people who don't know. There was a diss track, 616 in LA, which was good. It's a good song. It's Father's Day. I think was 616 forever or No, something did with OJ. But the album art was OJ glove, and so he had those black gloves on. And I love that, because that really felt like, to me, like if you've been really paying attention to this, and that song was, like forced to pay attention to this. That

David Dennis Jr 56:40

song was like, the pre character to the to the murder, like, that was really he

Traci Thomas 56:44

dropped that was the day that all the songs started coming out, right? Yeah, he dropped it

David Dennis Jr 56:48

that morning. And then Drake is like, godma Kittler, doesn't matter, because he warned him. He warns him. He's like, Hey, I know you what you got going on? You got leaks in your camp. This is what's going to happen. And Drake's like, it doesn't matter I'm dropping family matters, and Kendra's, like I told you, and 30 minutes later he drops, which is, like, the most daunting, like, terrible thing you could ever say to a human being over the course of of

Traci Thomas 57:13

six minutes. And then, like, two or three days later, not like us, comes out, yes. And then so, so 616, in LA is sort of like, okay, because in euphoria, he's like, don't tell no lies about me. I won't tell the truth about you. He's sort of like, don't do it. And then he in 616, he's like, No, really? Like, don't do it. Like, I hate you, and I know you want to take the bait, but like, you shouldn't, because I'm gonna kill you and I'm gonna ruin your life. And OJ killed people, and that's why there's a glove here. And that's me telling you it's gonna be a murder, like a murder is coming, and he's and Drake's like, I'm dense, and I'm the worst. And then Kendrick's like, let's talk to your family. Hello, mom, 616

David Dennis Jr 57:51

is like, when you start hearing the rain of Captain mirror playing in the background, like you start hearing it, and then meet the grams, when they start going, I'm stabbing everybody, and, like, cutting off heads and everything, and not like us, is when they, like, paraded them around and their bodies on fire, and they got the wolf head on top of them and all that stuff. Everybody celebrating the death of them, this deep Game of Thrones, Romans, this is really

Traci Thomas 58:16

okay. Do we feel like he did enough politically, that's been the big complaint is that the show was safe. He it was approved by the NFL, so it couldn't have been that progressive. You know, the real, the real stance was the protester who had the flag right. And everything that Kendrick did was just, was just performative, which is the criticism of Drake. Like, do we feel like that is valid, or do we feel like that is a hater mentality? So,

David Dennis Jr 58:51

okay, so yes, after this, I think people wanted to be like, want him to be like, you know, like, do all this thing and like, make this but like, so, so we are the text. And I hope everybody here has read my book. You should have. And so,

Traci Thomas 59:06

the thing is, like, movement made us the movement made us the book. Yes, you're new here. And so, and

David Dennis Jr 59:10

I thought about this the context of that, like, I originally was writing a book that was going to be like, look at America, look at what you've done to these people. Do better, right? But like, who's going to be impacted? Like, who's going to care about that, you know, like, like, it's not like, the like, these races are going to read the book and be like, You know what? We were wrong this whole time. I'm changing my life, you know, like, that's not going to happen, yeah, whoopsie made a Whoopsie, like, that's not going to happen, right? And so as I was, like, I want to write for like, black people, like, for us to read and get something for it, like, I would rather have something that, like, people who would actually want to gain something for it will gain something instead of, like, trying to convince people so, like, this idea, to me, is similar in this idea that you wanted Kendrick to be like Donald Trump. You've been terrible to black people. Change your ways, and he'd be like, you know, let's bring back de or whatever. Like, that's just not like, I don't I feel like that's kind of a wasted like, I feel like that's wasted, right to me, yes, for him to, like, make something like, I don't want, I want to see Kendrick Lamar talk to me. I wanted to feel good about Ken Lamar. I don't want to be like, feeling like I like. I don't want these people a part of this, you know, I'm saying like, and so I think he made a conscious effort to do something that was like, pretty much exclusively for like, black folks. Like, there was nothing in there that was like, really, I mean, all the stars, even that's on the Black Panther soundtrack, there wasn't like, anything that was like, if you're unfamiliar with Kendrick LaBar, here's who I am, and like, here's what makes you feel good. It makes feel safe, as determined by the fact that, like, look at what all of these folks are saying now, of like, being angry with them, like, there's nothing that he was going to like. I don't think there's really any way for a black person to be like, I'm going to make something that like white people are going to love, you know, unless you're like, that type of artist like John Legend, will probably do something that like white people love and nothing against him. But like, you know, he that he makes outable music, you know. And so Kendrick, I think, leaned into making something that was 100% for black folks, you know. And I appreciate that. Like, I don't think I needed him to do more of a statement for like, Donald Trump or like to get kicked off of the Super Bowl or whatever I'm I'm fine feeling like, very proud and very happy about what he did.

Traci Thomas 1:01:20

So to me, I think some of the, I think one of the things that people don't understand about, I mean, I've never, I've never performed at the halftime show of the Super Bowl, but I do have a background in live performance, theater and dance, and I did actually perform at the LL Cool J A Marie 2002 AFC Championship game with the Raiders, where they didn't win to go play and Tennessee Titans did. I was there in Oakland. Oh, I've been close,

really close. Same thing, same thing.

The amount of rehearsal time for this sort of stuff really predates the knowledge that Donald Trump is going to be there. So if you're looking for a whole halftime show that addresses Donald Trump, it's not happening, okay? Because he doesn't know that that man is going to be there, especially because a president has never gone to the Super Bowl, right? It's not like, it's likely this is going to happen. This is a first time, unprecedented time thing. In this unprecedented time, if you think maybe he gets a line off, he changes a line of a song, he references Trump, maybe, maybe. But what does that give you, right? Like, does that make the show better? Or does that make the show all about him disrespecting Donald Trump, air quotes on disrespecting like, does that turn everything else he does into he said, say, Donald I heard you. Like, right? Like, if he changes a line or like, because he's not gonna change the whole show in a week when he finds out Trump is coming, or in a few days when he finds out Trump is coming, that's just not gonna happen, because you put too much time, money and energy and perfecting this thing, as we've talked about that was so tight and so clean, so to throw that away, to get a dig off on Trump, when The whole show is about how fucking whack the shit is in the first place, the country, the expectations, the races. I mean, it's all in the show, right? I also think, like, I think Traci McMillan cottom said this. She was like, the thing that's hilarious is that it was really subversive, and the NFL signed off on all of it because they didn't get it right. They didn't understand what they were signing off on. And I think that's really cool. And, like, is a really cool slight of hand, because he didn't do all right. And I know you kind of, in your piece, questioned if that was because, like, for higher pressure, he decided not to. I think he decided not because he did it at the last Super Bowl. And if he does all the songs he did last time, it's just like, oh, you only have four songs, yeah. Um, I think it fits in the story. I think you could make it fit in the story. The story. I heard some people say he didn't do it because the night had been, like, dedicated to first responders, and so, like, maybe the NFL didn't want him to, like, shit on first responders after they, like, brought them out and said they were great, yeah, or whatever, because the set like, po, po, kill is dead in the street, for sure, whatever. I honestly think he was just like, you guys already know this one, yeah, like you're already thinking this song as I'm doing this whole other show. So why would I bother doing it? If you're I've already evoked it in you, but I didn't miss it. I missed

David Dennis Jr 1:04:13

it at the time I watched it back and, like, it's, everything fits. Everything really fits. Um, and, I mean, you know, there's just going to be some stuff that, like, he's doing, he's doing the Super Bowl halftime show, right? So there's, like, some part of this, as I wrote, that's, like, contributing to this capitalist, whatever, this, you know, Empire of the NFL. And, like, that's what he like, that's baked into it, right? And if you want to go in this and say, he's doing that, I don't want no part of this. I don't want no part of Kendra. I don't care what he did. Like, fine. That's fine. That's fine. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to disparage you for that. Because, like, maybe if I'm not as big a fan of somebody, and I would may say the same thing, but I love Kendrick Lamar. Like, you know, we all have these different barometers for where we are. I do think that, like, even, even, like, Mr. Morale, the last album before. You next. I had a lot of problems with like it. Yeah, there were a lot of problems, like with with where his stances were, where politics were, stuff like that. I honestly and sincerely think that Kendrick Lamar, at all points, is his most sincere self, like, I don't ever he's an earnest kid. He's an earnest kid. Yeah, he's trying, and these are the things that he feels are politically the right things to do, right? Yeah, and he feels like he's doing the most good for the most black people. Now, I can quibble about if he is or not at different points, but one of the things that is all about not like us is, yes, it's about Drake, but it is a larger thing of partnering Drake up with this American establishment that's anti black, and Drake did himself no favors by literally partnering, partnering up with the like, criminal justice system and like trying to sue him and all this stuff. And Kendrick Lamar is making this a larger statement of like, I hate you Drake, but also hate like colonizers, and you're a colonizer and not like us. Is a protest song. I really do think it's a protest song. And he's performing this song about colonizers at the Super Bowl, you know? Yeah, and he's doing humble and he's doing the American fight, like he did a ton of stuff that I think we're looking for, even if he didn't say, like, screw you Donald Trump at some point in the show,

Traci Thomas 1:06:11

right? Okay, this is the last thing I want to talk about quickly, is the is the lawsuit, okay? I've heard a lot of people say that between him winning all the Grammys, the high five with Lucian and Dr Dre the Super Bowl appearance, the Super Bowl performance. That this all proves that Drake is right, that everybody's against Drake, like that. They've conspired against Drake, behind Kendrick to make Drake less valuable. Do you? Do you buy into that at all?

David Dennis Jr 1:06:39

70,000 people yelled a minor like, in unison and stinking like he has, no I don't buy it. He has a like, bona fide, legitimate hit. And like, in the way the music industry is going, and the way that like streaming is going, and the way that people are not like in clubs, the same way, and there's no monoculture and all this stuff, to have a universally renowned hit like this in 2025 is something that that you cannot do with, like sales, like there's some art like Eminem, for instance, right? His last album was the number one album streaming when it came out. His single was, like, the number one song in the world for a little bit of time. He performed it at the VMAs. Nobody said a word, like you can heard it, right? Nobody, nobody muttered a song. There's another rapper who I shall not be named because her fan base are maniacs, and they try to dox people. And she's the crazy, you know? And she does like had a number one hit that came out, and nobody heard it. Nobody plays it. It's not like we can point to how these numbers get juked and all that stuff. And to be fair, Drake, I think, has legitimate hits like, I don't think Drake, yes, he benefits from numbers. But when you say started from the bottom, or YOLO, like people, these have cultural breakthrough in a lot of you know, ways, yes, and that's legitimate. I think Kendrick Lamar, these songs, TV, off, not like us, are legitimate breakthrough songs that people are yelling and singing when the entire Grammys are saying a minor like that. Like, you can't say that those are not numbers. Like, my mom knows what not like us is, you know, like he's not he talked

Traci Thomas 1:08:17

about it at Thanksgiving. Roster stacks gave a course to the table, right?

David Dennis Jr 1:08:21

They know this stuff that the Spotify algorithm is not trying to get my mom to listen to, not like us, you know, right? Like this is something that happened naturally, and the lawsuit, I don't understand the laws. I don't understand what Drake was trying to accomplish, but it was really his own nail and his own cough. Am I doing it?

Traci Thomas 1:08:39

I think so. My only, my only thing of like, okay, maybe Drake is on to something, is like, I do think that there are things that they do to try to, like, suppress or promote artists or whatever, and it is possible that that happened here. I don't think it did, because the moment I heard that song, which was five minutes after it came out, because Mr. Sex immediately sent it to me. I was like, This is the greatest song I've ever heard in my life. And I played it approximately 7000 times, and I just stopped playing it for the first time today. Like, I like, so, so I think there are a lot of people that it's authentic. I think the argument of like, oh, they were high fiving at the Grammys, doesn't Lucian High Five anyone at the Grammys of his artist win song and record of the year. Like, I understand that it's a bad look, because it does look like They ganged up. But if there's no lawsuit, if there's no Drake and just one of his artists wins, one of their artists wins, like he gets a celebratory moment, yeah? Like, if your artist is got five for five at the Grammys, that's a big day, right? That's a day where everybody takes pictures and people congratulate you and people crown you and say all these things about you. So I don't think that that justifies, I don't think that that argument of like, See, he's right. It's like Kendrick is having a serious moment, and people who benefit from that, who make money off of that, are gonna be happy about it. I'm happy about. It, and I'm just making a bonus episode.

David Dennis Jr 1:10:03

The streaming numbers go up for these things. They're making more money. Like, yeah, I would high five as well. And yes, they're probably some number juking that's going on without like us. But I wouldn't say that it's any more than goes with any other song,

Traci Thomas 1:10:15

right? You can't fake the funk on that song. Yeah, you can eat as catchy as hell, like you you can fake the funk on some stuff. But like, do you remember that weekend when that song came out and the NBA games were playing interstitial music, right, going into commercials or coming out? I was like, I remember literally watching TV and being like, I think it was a Lakers game I was watching and being like, this is so bad for Drake. Yeah, because it was not even out for 24 hours. It was like the Saturday game or whatever, I don't know, whatever day the Monday night game, whatever, whatever game it was they were playing, it instantly.

David Dennis Jr 1:10:49

Sorry, Drake, you lost. Yeah. Just take, take the L. I don't know what the lawsuits were. Probably the biggest self defeat of this entire thing, besides the hard part six, which is one of the most poorly executed. This song, which I could never think of my entire life, which is a whole

Traci Thomas 1:11:03

other one where he pretends to be Tupac or whatever.

David Dennis Jr 1:11:06

No, no, no. That was the that was, that is the second most embarrassing disc bracket, hard, particularly where he was like, I planted the I planted all this all along. And it was like, You're only saying this because you were molested. And it's like, yes,

Traci Thomas 1:11:19

no, no, I actually think that the Tupac one is worse than that one. I think

David Dennis Jr 1:11:24

they're both terrible. The hard part takes was just like it was a guy who just was crying to himself in the corner and just trying to, like, fight people over and then now you're dissing LeBron. Anyway, Drake is Drake

Traci Thomas 1:11:35

is done. It's done. And the bullet holes with the smoke, it's all a nightmare for him. This victory lap for Kendrick filled my soul. I love it here. I'm so glad you did this with me. Are there any, is there any last thing that you have to say? Okay, so

David Dennis Jr 1:11:49

this is what I want to say. Like, if you liked it, don't be an asshole. Like, there are people, like, there are some people who there are legitimate reasons not to like this, right? If you don't like I don't know the songs, I don't understand the words, and I don't care about the Drake thing. I wanted bigger hits. I wanted like, flow rider, whatever. Like, I just don't think right one little way, like, I just don't like, don't do the thing where, like, you don't like, it must have gone over your head, because, like, let's get it. Let's like, there's some, there's some deep messaging here. It's not like the man is reciting Tony Morrison out there, you know, I'm saying like, it's like, it's like, pretty a lot of the broad strokes are pretty easy to recognize, right? Uncle Sam Samuel Jackson, I get it like, it doesn't mean that it like window, like, don't be like, You're too simple to understand that, because then you become a J Cole fan, and nobody wants to do that.

Traci Thomas 1:12:42

I Okay. I don't have anything else to say. I don't think Yeah. I mean, yeah, this is great. I do have one quick thing, really quick. I'll be really quick. So a lot of chatter about Kendrick and Beyonce, okay, what they're up to, and also whether or not they're actually politically active human beings that we should care about and value. And I like, I like the comparison. I think, I think that it is apt, an apt simile metaphor. I don't know whatever, and I do have questions around some of the like capitalism of it, all right, but mostly they are the two artists who are providing me with the most right now. Yeah, joy, innovation, storytelling, esthetic, cleanliness, like I just to to be in a world where so much gestures wildly, is going on that is so fucking bad, and to have words for Kendrick and Beyonce, yeah, you're acting like a fucking Drake. Okay, if that's you, if you're out there being a fucking loser about this, call your congress people. You should call them anyways. But people sucking the joy out of this within 24 hours. I don't like it. Yeah, I don't. I just, I find it to be repulsive. It's like, oh, cowboy Carter sucks. It's not the album of the year. Well, guess what? Bitch it is, the album of the year. You know? Why? Because she fucking won Album of the Year. Take it up with the voters this time, because last time it was like, Oh, well, you know the voters, yeah, we'll take it up with them. She's Album of the Year. He just did a great Super Bowl performance. And you don't like to have fun. And you know what? That's a you thing. That's not an us thing. Oh,

David Dennis Jr 1:14:32

see what I did there?

Traci Thomas 1:14:34

Storytelling. Okay, well, this was amazing. This went way too long. I'm sure Christian has to cut it out, but we'll see David, you're the best. We'll do this again. We might have to do an annual Super Bowl halftime show, because next year we're getting Carrie Underwood. You're right,

David Dennis Jr 1:14:48

right, exactly. I'm going to be like Travis tritt in like Travis

Traci Thomas 1:14:52

tritt and Travis Kelsey together. It's going to be people I don't know, and it's going to be me saying I. Didn't get it, and it's gonna be white people having the it's gonna be the Maga people having the time of their lives. David, you're the best everyone who's stuck with this this long Thank you, and we will see you in The Stacks.