Unabridged: 2024 Pop Culture Superlatives with Chelsea Devantez & Sam Sanders - Transcript
In this episode of The Stacks Unabridged, we’re closing out 2024 with a lively recap of the year in pop culture. Chelsea Devantez and Sam Sanders join the show to hand out superlatives for this year’s biggest moments—from breakout performances to the villain of the year, and the stories that defined 2024.
TRANSCRIPT
Traci Thomas 0:00
Hey everybody, it's Traci Thomas, host of the stacks, here for another episode of the stacks, unabridged, which is our bonus podcast content exclusive to subscribers on Patreon and sub stack. This year, 2024 has been filled with all sorts of pop culture, glory, nonsense and debauchery, and I wanted to discuss it with two people who know pop culture way better than I do. I'm joined today by Chelsea Devantez, the host of the glamorous trash podcast and the author of stacky nominee. I shouldn't be telling you this, but I'm going to anyway, and another friend of the show, Sam Sanders, the host of the SAM Sanders Show and co host of the vibe check podcast today we are doing the year 2024 in superlatives. We're giving you our faves, our least faves, biggest downfalls, breakthrough performances and a lot more. Okay, enough of that. Let's get to today's bonus episode with Chelsea Devantez And Sam Sanders, all about the best and worst of 2024, pop culture.
All right, everybody, we're doing this for the first time. It's the snacks on a bridge. It's a bonus episode. We get to do whatever we want. I had a blast talking about pop culture a few weeks ago on Sam Sanders new show, the SAM Sanders Show. And I thought, What should we do in December? And I said, we should just do what Sam Sanders does, and talk pop culture. So I forced Sam Sanders to come back. And my favorite other person to talk about pop culture with is friend of the pod and published author stackies nominee Chelsea Devonta. So they're both here. Welcome to the sacks. Y'all.
Chelsea Devantez 1:43
It's so good to be here. Honored to be here. Honored to be nominated. If I don't win, delete this episode and don't release it. If
Traci Thomas 1:51
you don't win, I will cancel the podcast. Okay, yeah. On
Sam Sanders 1:55
the other hand, I'm a Leo. A nomination is not an honor. A win is and second place is a first loser. I want to win whatever this competition is.
Traci Thomas 2:05
Well, you didn't write a book this year. Gotta get started to get entered.
Sam Sanders 2:10
No, I'm saying the competition for this episode. Are you gonna award a winner? Oh, oh
Chelsea Devantez 2:14
yeah, between your two battles, I think this emotionally will go well, yeah. Well,
Traci Thomas 2:20
I feel like Sam wants to win more, but I feel like Chelsea will be more upset if she loses. Wow,
Chelsea Devantez 2:26
that was such a personality diagnosis, and the fact that it was hard and soft, real is painful. Damn, really. Yeah, that was so true. I won't care if I don't win, but the losing will
Traci Thomas 2:36
hurt. Yeah, well, I'm sorry that I know my friends so well, Chelsea,
Sam Sanders 2:39
you win. Scathing, you win. Chelsea, you win.
Chelsea Devantez 2:43
Thank you, Sam. I feel like I just like, went to my psychiatrist and they finally diagnosed me for the first time. This is who you are. Meanwhile,
Sam Sanders 2:50
I am literally eating pizza and drinking beer as I'm talking to y'all. It's been a long week, a long month. It's Friday evening, and I am just Mama's tired. I've been ripping and running through these podcast streets for a lot. That's
Traci Thomas 3:05
how I feel. Is that how we all feel? I
Chelsea Devantez 3:07
mean, yeah, I have that email sitting in my inbox on when to book Sam Sanders on my podcast and when I'm coming on his like that. I haven't got to. And then we got on this zoom, and I was like, because we'll be podcasting in 2025 No, it has been a hard, hard week. Yeah, it's been. We're also
Sam Sanders 3:22
waiting to watch because we know that you have been on the other side of the country. We know when you're getting back, we're gonna reach out. We're gonna find you. We're gonna find you. Ready or not? Here we come.
Traci Thomas 3:31
Yeah. Okay. Lauren Hill, ready? Well, with all that being said, everybody listening at home, we're still gonna have a great time, I promise. Or if we don't chalk it up to the fact that we're fucking tired, how about we give you enough? No, we're
Chelsea Devantez 3:44
having a great time. I also have a beer when my worst weeks are my MO let me, let's get fucking crazy
Traci Thomas 3:52
on this. I'll set it up. Okay, I was gonna have you guys just tell me your most and least favorite pop culture things. But then I was like, Wouldn't it be fun to do superlatives? So we're gonna do a sort of superlative, best and worst, faves and least faves, hodge podge, 2024 which feels right, because 2024 feels like an extremely hodgepodge
Sam Sanders 4:11
year. There's a mess. It was a mess. A mess.
Chelsea Devantez 4:14
Yeah, it feels like a potluck where, like there was no theme, and no one got the memo. So someone was like, I thought we were supposed to bring, like, old tires to sell. Another lady's like, I'm giving away clothes. Another man is like, I have sugar here. It's like, it's just like,
Traci Thomas 4:26
gross. That's exactly right. So I guess we'll start. Let's start with, like, the, the biggest overarching thing, if you had to pick, sort of the biggest story of the year for you, what would you what would you say? Like? What pops to mind? Biggest story,
Chelsea Devantez 4:44
Jennifer Lopez, debuting her documentary about her love life, about her music, movie about her love life, and within two months, getting a divorce, and within two other months removing the in. Infinity tattoo, which is forever removing the Infinity tattoo from her body, yeah, and showing up to an event with a dress that had the full side cut out so you could see that was the only way you could see that that shit was awesome, because it was like below her sidebar.
Sam Sanders 5:15
Why would J Lo play any tattoo games with a man who has a full Phoenix tattooed on his back, he'll match your freaking beat it. J Lo, don't even play the tattoo game with this man.
Chelsea Devantez 5:30
This man don't care. He will put a parrot up his neck at his next breakup, like
Sam Sanders 5:35
he's probably gonna tattoo a Dunkin donut cup on his cheek before it's all said and done. This man is
Traci Thomas 5:42
there's no probably has one on his other lower cheek, the limit
Sam Sanders 5:45
does not exist. The limit does not exist. Well,
Chelsea Devantez 5:49
I also just think, like an infinity tattoo is doomsday
Sam Sanders 5:55
for disaster. You, yeah,
Chelsea Devantez 5:57
you cursed yourself with divorce. With that tattoo, there was a chance it would go okay, if you just didn't Instagram post it on Valentine's Day to the world. No, listen, get in that tattoo. You're cursed, but you could have helped the hex if you didn't share it on Valentine's Day with everybody. It's like, He also posted his tattoo. She was like, here's my tattoo. He got a matching one. Happy Valentine's Day. The world should know,
Sam Sanders 6:22
yeah, I just stuff I don't have any trust in either their sense of career or personhood anymore, because as much as I love those old J Lo bops, the new stuff on this album and documentary had no sense of place, no sense of time, no sense of logic, musically or spiritually. So like, of course, every other part of your life is kind of haywire right now because, like, come on, did you you watched it? It's hard to overstate a house viewing party for it. Oh, it's not just that it's bad. It's that it's like, clinically absurd, absurd.
Chelsea Devantez 7:08
It is absurd. That is correct, and it is like, if I, you know, as a teenager got broken up with and made a movie about that breakup and the lessons and the takeaways, that was the movie, you just gotta, like, yeah, while on qualities, I just like, you just gotta kind of got like, you just gotta kind of love, be self better astrology, yay. Like, that's the plot. Yeah.
Traci Thomas 7:30
I'm just obsessed with with both of you having watched it and basically having the exact same takeaway, because I watched it through you, Chelsea, through your social media, and I could not tell you what's in it all I know is that something to do with the Zodiac, and maybe like a gown with zodiac, and
Sam Sanders 7:48
the zodiac signs are portrayed by Neil deGrasse, Tyson, Jane Fonda.
Who else was Jay Shetty?
Thus the Fauci to the stars. I don't know
Chelsea Devantez 8:02
he's Jason. Yeah, he's the Fauci of the stars, who and he was the of the wedding, of the wedding Ben and J Lo's wedding, another sign that it's
Traci Thomas 8:10
Jim and all of that happened this year, right? Yeah, was the wedding this year too? Or was the wedding 20? No,
Chelsea Devantez 8:15
no, no, no. They were married for almost for two years. Exactly two years. Damn. Oh, that she filed for divorce on their anniversary, but she
Traci Thomas 8:24
had, but they had already split up, like months before, and she waited to do it also. This is why, things I learned from your Instagram, this is why I
Sam Sanders 8:30
just don't get the logic of love and marriage. Because should I ever get married and then get divorced? I'm never getting married again. I'm never getting married again, because you risk a second divorce. Well,
Chelsea Devantez 8:43
you you say that? I sure do. I've just seen so many people do it that it's like something must change within your brain. Because I feel the same I'm married, and someone was like, Oh my God, for your husband. No. And here's the thing, he and I, he is covered, covered in tattoos. I have a half a dozen. We are tattoo people, and we get the urge. We've had the urge multiple times in our relationship, like, oh my god, we should both get this. And we go, no, no, we cannot. Like, you cannot tempt. You. Cannot tempt. The gods. Do it.
Sam Sanders 9:18
Don't do it. Do you
Traci Thomas 9:20
all have needy quarantine dog tattoos? Well,
Chelsea Devantez 9:23
that, of course, that's one of the options. That's one that we thought, like, oh, we could get that and, you know, it's like, matching, but it's not That's what I believe about our dog. But still, listen, yeah, I don't want to. The moment I saw the tattoo, I said it's over, like, I just, I don't want to bring that in my life. That's
Traci Thomas 9:38
great. Okay, Sam, what's your biggest pop culture story of the year. Give
Sam Sanders 9:41
me one second. Someone's texting me about a deadline. Oh, I need, I need next week to be here already. Seriously taping now. Let me add an hour. Christian, don't cut this. We love a deadline. So I think. The biggest story for me of the year was the intense juxtaposition of two pop culture stories. So I'll talk about that. And then second, there's a big business story that no one is talking about, that we all should be talking about. So Okay, first, I was blown away by the sheer and utter juxtaposition of Kendrick versus Drake, compared to Ariana and Cynthia's love fest, it was like watching two different worlds of a press tour, like on one these two powerful, strong women hold hands to push a movie to the pinnacle of success, and like their love fest, fueled wicked to all that we're enjoying now with that moment, whereas, on the other side of this pop culture coin this year, Kendrick and Drake fueled their hatred and used their hatred to propel us to the biggest Rap Song of the Year. It's like one Super Bowl, yes, and the Super Bowl, right? And so it's like the two biggest pop stories for me this year were like, love conquering all and also hate conquering all. And they both were enjoyable in very different ways. You know
Traci Thomas 11:16
what it goes to show you? Neither of those things, conquer all, some
Sam Sanders 11:20
Yeah. There you go. There you go, yeah. Like,
Traci Thomas 11:23
the idea that, like, there's a right answer to do anything, it's like, no, you got to do. You got to do your truth. Oh, your truth is fucking destroying someone through hate and calling them a pedophile repeatedly, loudly into many microphones. Then get your life. That's if that's authentically you that thing. And if you're Yeah, if you're authentically into wearing pink and green and holding hands and holding fingers,
Sam Sanders 11:45
holding hands, holding fingers, holding space and holding fingers, being
Traci Thomas 11:49
on the verge of tears at any moment, yes, then do that, and that will propel you to unlimited heights.
Sam Sanders 11:59
And it's like they both were earnest in the two most opposite ways. Like, yeah, Kendrick's honesty was his spontaneity. And it's just like, well, here's another one, here's more, here's more, here's more. And the earnestness of Cynthia and Ariana this year was a slow burn of a pitch perfect performance. You know? Yeah, they walked that push, one to the other. I love them both for different reasons. Oh, would you go ahead? Do you like my like one more the other? I do
Chelsea Devantez 12:23
because, because I have to say this, yes, you're right about your authentic self. But I really do believe you can build a platform, a mountain, an arc, off of hate like that is an online build an entire, yeah, we're going back, but I'm even thinking of like the influencer, like Sophia la court and like, you can build off of hate. You really can build an empire in a house. And I think, but I think it's that's so much I don't know. I think that's cheaper, because had Cynthia and Ariana, like, hated each other, we would have gobbled that up as well, in a disgusting way, of like, oh my god, they hate each other. And these two women easily, easily could have done that, and instead held fingers and created, I think, something so much stronger, to the point where, like, when people are doing body criticism of Ariana, they were inhabited them holding hands together, are like, no, and then you're shooting down, like, criticizing, you know, body image, which is like, When does that get to happen? And like, also talked about the queer stories. And like, there's just so many things that got to happen because they chose to, like, they're not gonna fucking get us. Yes,
Traci Thomas 13:29
I agree with that. However, I push back slightly on the Kendrick hate stuff, because while he led with hate, he also did a lot more than just hate. Drake, like, he brought South
Sam Sanders 13:40
LA, so much of LA, yes and bloods at these concerts, sea walking together. I did not go to any of the concerts because I was scared of him bringing Crips and Bloods together, but they did. But it
Traci Thomas 13:51
worked. It worked, but he didn't. Because I do, I do think while he was hating Drake, he was also like pushing himself creatively in a way that was like that. He's hungry again. Like, yes, like, the diss track, great, hilarious. Let's laugh at Drake. But he pushed past the hate and was like, by the way, let me remind you how great I am. I'm trying these new things. I'm doing these different homages, like, I'm releasing albums. I'm gonna do the Super Bowl. Like, Hugh said, Drake, fine, I hate you. And then he was like, but there's so much more
Sam Sanders 14:21
out there for his multitude. Yeah,
Chelsea Devantez 14:23
listen, yeah, I get it. I love hate. Love a grudge. I love my doing. So
Sam Sanders 14:27
that's my biggest like culture, culture moment story, but my big business story that no one talked about enough during Spotify wrapped week, I was kind of just like at this point. I think I feel weird about Spotify wrapped. I think I feel weird about Spotify, and I just began to like Google all the headlines from Spotify from this year. And it turns out, Spotify is cray right now. Their CEO made $375 million by exercising stock options and such over the last year. Meanwhile, the. Most of musicians who have their music on Spotify make less than $10,000 a year from streaming there. And by some measures, you have to be streamed a million times just to make $4,000 Wow. And so my biggest like story we should watch, but we're not watching enough, is like creatives who are in the streaming economy, who are doing music they're not solvent, and the system's not helping them. And like my mantra for 2025 is like, if I like an artist, I'm buying their merch, I'm buying their album on band camp, and I'm trying to find ways to get money to them directly. Streaming your favorite artist all day is actually not paying them. It's wild, of
Chelsea Devantez 15:44
course, of course. And to make this a little bit about us, they've really taken over podcasts in like, ad ways. And also it's like, well, now you gotta put video up, or people can't find you. And blah, blah, blah, to the point where I wonder where, where this is headed, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, they've, they've pulled every cent out of music, I would say they've pulled almost every cent out of podcasting. There's one cent left, and it's all
Traci Thomas 16:13
good
Sam Sanders 16:15
direct deposit to Jordan. And then also, it's like, I don't want to dog Spotify too much, because I need them for my career success, right? I want the love and shine Spotify, if you're listening, tell me what you want. They're not
Traci Thomas 16:27
just behind a paywall. Oh,
Sam Sanders 16:29
we're patreon so I can go off. No, no, no,
Chelsea Devantez 16:35
no I I'm literally like, oh, 2025 we need to care about Spotify. And I'm like, wow. Well,
Traci Thomas 16:41
we need to, it's not we need to, like, expose, expose the ruse. I mean, not like care or
Sam Sanders 16:46
also, let me just find one of those checks. I would love to be, call her mommy. I would love to get one of those deals. Call her mommy, mommy. Give me that deal. Alex Cooper won, and I want to be like her.
Chelsea Devantez 16:59
Can I just say something shitty about Alex Cooper that I don't think is sad enough, if you have a daddy, you don't get to name your thing. Call her daddy and make daddy jokes. She's got a strong daddy. He raised her. He loved her. He has her daddy. Okay, daddy, shit is for us. For us pieces of shit. We don't have no daddy. Okay, daddy, the daddy branding is mine. Like, how's dari be? Like, I'm Daddy. It's like, No, you were
Sam Sanders 17:24
loved. Stop. You have a strong father. Shut up. You have
Chelsea Devantez 17:27
a daddy. So you're not the Chelsea's
Traci Thomas 17:28
daddy issues. You can buy her book. I shouldn't be telling you this. It's up for a stacking Award for Best memoir, also best debit. But follow
Sam Sanders 17:36
up. Are you okay, Chelsea, if people listen to the audiobook on Spotify,
Chelsea Devantez 17:43
yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen any more money from the bio ideas live your life.
Traci Thomas 17:51
Okay, so my biggest pop culture story of the year is the pop culture vacation of the election. Yeah, speaking of call her daddy brat. Even the Kendrick coconut tree, the coconut tree, the videos, the posting, the whole thing, the the the Joe Rogan of it all the the way that this election became a battle about who's the most pop culturally relevant and whether or not that even matters when it comes to voting. But also, just like how ubiquitous it was, everywhere, everything,
Sam Sanders 18:30
and this is what was so crazy about it. It's like Democrats and Kamala and that crew were thinking they were winning pop culture because they had brat, and Beyonce was at the thing, and Megan, the stallion, was there. But then you realize, come election day night, that Donald Trump has won a pop culture universe that a lot of us didn't even know existed. But
Traci Thomas 18:55
also, I mean, my big question always was during the election, anytime someone would come out and endorse Kamala was who's voting based off that. Why do I care? Like when? When the bush twin girl, the not Jenna one the Martha Barbara, the brunette, yeah, the other one,
Sam Sanders 19:11
what is she doing with her life? At least, that's what I what's her face is out here on the Today Show work, and she works. But the other one, yes, she's
Traci Thomas 19:18
working to rehab her entire family's war criminal history. That's all she's working to do. But
Chelsea Devantez 19:23
I think, yeah, sorry, no, please go. All the messaging was wrong. I think it's kind of heartbreaking in a world where all good songs, yeah, I'm gonna say all of them, all good songs, were created by liberals and Democrats to the point that there's no songs Trump can play at his campaign because he gets a season assist Right? Like, this is supposed to be like, our territory art is ours, and for them to win at it, I think is, like, a little heartbreaking. And I also think endorsements were more about like, oh, like, it was more a matter of. Oh, what do I think about this celebrity, rather than, like, the mess, like no one said a message that anyone could understand, yes, like, you know what I mean? Like, they never had, like, he was like, I'll do tariffs for the economy, and we all know that. And if you're like, hey, explain what the Democrats economical plan would, what would be, you're like, Oh, it's a like, bitch, get a brand. Yeah,
Sam Sanders 20:21
well, and you know, you're making this perfect point about how, like, the endorsements were more about the celebrities. All that brouhaha over whether or not chapel Roan had to or was going to endorse Kamala wasn't about Kamala. It was about what we think about chapel Rome.
Traci Thomas 20:37
Chapel Rome, well,
Chelsea Devantez 20:38
and it was what it was about I feel so fucking helpless in my life. The best thing I can do is comment on chal per owns Instagram to tell her she's a piece of shit if she doesn't fill in the book, because there is no I mean, do you have any idea how many emails I personally sent to Joe Biden that he never saw, like I was just emailing his office every goddamn day, like I'm on list, I'm sure they won't let me fly next year. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen, but it's happen, but it's just like, because you just feel so like they're not listening. Nothing matters. And so then I think you're like, I know what will matter if I can bully my local influencer into saying something that I agree with, as if that would ever make a difference.
Traci Thomas 21:17
Yeah, right. But I also, wow, I had a lot of feelings about this. I didn't know I love it, even if she had come out and said, even if chaperone, or whoever, Taylor Swift did it, Beyonce did it, whoever had come out and said, I'm supporting Kamala, I genuinely don't think it matters. Because I genuinely don't think any human being on planet Earth who's eligible to vote in 2024 or enough people are voting based on their favorite celebrity, the word Beyonce, came out and said, I'm supporting Trump. I'm not voting for Trump, and I love Beyonce like you're and I think maybe there's some 18 year olds. Maybe there's a few people here and there. But even still, when I was 18, I don't care what Britney Spears said, I was not gonna vote for George Bush, no matter what she came out and said. And I think we put way too much pressure and like power on who's endorsing who? When I'm like, Babe, you're the candidate. Let me endorse you. Convince me to endorse you, individual voter and American. And this was
Sam Sanders 22:11
so evident when in that last week of the campaign, when a comedian at a Trump rally basically called Puerto Rico a trash can, and then J Lo posted, and everyone's like, well, y'all know that J Lo endorsement. No, she can't even sell out her own tour. No one bought her album. What is her relevance culturally right now, this idea and this, this spoke to a laziness amongst Democrats. Oh, let's not craft a message that actually speaks to the multifacetedness of Latinos in America. Let's not go into these black and brown neighborhoods in Philly, in urban areas. We'll just get Megan to twerk and that J Lo instapost will be enough. It felt cheap and insulting to me.
Chelsea Devantez 22:57
I think that goes back to the message like, you could get camo print hats that say, like, Kamala waltz, like you can't get one sentence in every buddy's mouth, yeah, his like, or it would be about him, his economical plan, like, tariffs won't work, or whatever. That was the closest they got. But like, they didn't have one. Like, I she had maybe, like, maybe I'll kind of save abortion, but I'm not really sure, depending on who is gonna be
Traci Thomas 23:25
like, I
Sam Sanders 23:26
would have just like, you could, I would have been, I would have been in stirrups outside of Planned Parenthood. Come on. Like, yeah, sell it. Oh, sell it. And
Chelsea Devantez 23:35
give me the message. And I have to say Bernie Sanders was right there making sentences, yeah, and listen, it's not like, I'm Bernie bro here, but it's just like the Democratic party you are. Okay.
Traci Thomas 23:49
It's a shacket. It's a shacket and
Sam Sanders 23:52
a beanie. I say this with love in parentheses, complimentary.
Traci Thomas 23:59
So you're more of a Bernie bra that came
Sam Sanders 24:01
out so much neater than I wanted it to come out.
Chelsea Devantez 24:05
No, I for everyone listening. I have been pulling my my shacket over my head to show it up. I just, I just think. I just the messaging is so, yeah. Like, you know what I mean. Like, take, take a note from Nike just doing, like, you need one stick, and you need and need Megan V stallion to say yes. Like,
Sam Sanders 24:26
also the whole, like, Oh, she only had 100 days as soon as you become vice president. All you're thinking about is becoming president. Listen, I read her
Chelsea Devantez 24:33
memoir. She was thinking about becoming president four years before that.
Traci Thomas 24:36
Like, yeah. I mean, I think, I think there was a big failure on her part. I think there was also an even bigger failure on Biden's parts, which
Sam Sanders 24:44
had Biden done what he said he was going to do and just never agreed to even try to run for re election, we would have had a primary that would have strengthened whatever candidate we got as a nominee, and it would have maybe worked out better. But Kamala was screwed by Joe Biden. About the Democratic Party was screwed by Joe Biden, and it's just like there are errors, errors to pass around, errors to pass around
Traci Thomas 25:06
everybody, a lot of L's, a lot of else. It's giving big Drake energy, unfortunately. Okay, let's go to a superlative. Who is your Breakthrough Performance of the Year? Take that as you will. Break through Performance of the Year,
Sam Sanders 25:24
Sabrina Carpenter, because you know what? She had a whole year of music. I loved an album. I thoroughly enjoyed. She was everywhere. Espresso was everywhere. And I ended the year not knowing an actual thing about her and not wanting to you did the job. I've
Traci Thomas 25:46
never seen her before. Tell
Sam Sanders 25:47
me one Sabrina Carpenter, fact you can't, because you're not supposed to know. She just gives you the bops. That's it. Best performance of your hands down, all she does is her job, which is music for me. Okay,
Traci Thomas 25:59
Chelsea, who's your breakthrough?
Chelsea Devantez 26:01
You know, I think chapel Ron was technically last year, so I won't say her this year, but her always. And listen, her breakthrough was her yelling at photographers on the rag. I love that. I love that energy, don't fuck with me. Energy, the guy who created reindeer. Don't know his name, but I think saying the guy who created and acted and wrote reindeer. What's reindeer? Just incredible, baby reindeer. I'm so sorry, baby. Yeah,
Sam Sanders 26:28
I've never seen a show before in my life. Yeah,
Chelsea Devantez 26:30
and the fact that he got it across the finish line, I'm just, I'm as someone who's constantly getting notes every single day. I'm, I'm in fucking awe. So bow down to him, and I would say Serena page from love Island, USA, for quotes like a broke man, a broke man hates himself. He's gonna hate you. I support women's wrongs and women's rights. She was great. Okay,
Traci Thomas 26:52
okay, this is my last political answer, but Tim walls is my Breakthrough Performance of the Year. He came out of the fucking nowhere. No one
Sam Sanders 27:00
ever went back to nowhere. Ain't nobody checking. He sure did,
Traci Thomas 27:03
but he, but he broke through
Sam Sanders 27:04
He did. He did.
Traci Thomas 27:06
Did you? Could you have named the governor of fucking Minnesota from
Sam Sanders 27:11
true I
Traci Thomas 27:12
heard of him, yeah,
Chelsea Devantez 27:14
his debate, and maybe also, maybe his daughter. He lost that debate. He breaks down to performance. He lost that
Traci Thomas 27:20
and then my other breakthrough performance is that hippo mu Dang, mu dang do shit surprise. It warmed people's hearts and gave us something it was angry and happy and just cheering us. Maybe just
Sam Sanders 27:33
perhaps I'm just a horrible carnivore, but whenever I see mu dang I think about the ways you could cook mu dang up. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm the son of a cattle rancher. I see meat. I see meat. Oh, that's a cow. Oh, my God, that's a cow. No, isn't it a hippo? They're cows.
Traci Thomas 27:52
Have you ever eaten a hippo? No, thanks just asking.
Sam Sanders 27:56
And I won't, because I don't want the Feds coming after me. They're an endangered species. I believe. Okay, his skin. The skin was so dewy, so plump, so moist. I was like, there's probably a good roast in there somewhere. Okay, sorry, sorry. Hey, move on Ina,
Traci Thomas 28:13
gotten over here. Okay, what about your biggest or most unexpected comeback of the year. I can go first because I have one. Mine is the Menendez brothers. Oh, what a fucking battle. But hold on, though, are they still
Sam Sanders 28:32
locked up?
Traci Thomas 28:34
They had their their sentences lessened, or they're up for having it lessened,
Sam Sanders 28:38
because people, they can't call it a comeback till they get out. Because what is they're coming What is media love if you're still behind a cell,
Traci Thomas 28:46
I think it's something okay. I think there's a lot of people behind cells who would love to have their attention related to their
Sam Sanders 28:52
work. How do you feel to their work? Yeah. How do you feel about Ryan Murphy making all killers hot? I'm not
Traci Thomas 28:58
into it because then I went and googled the Menendez brothers faces. And I was like, Wow, I'm extremely disappointed. Like, if you're hot, be hot. Like, when he does the Luigi Mangione thing, making past a hot person, he can make him hotter than he is, right? Like, he's good looking, he could make him like, Bay, yeah, Bay, watch, right? Yeah. But with these guys, I'm just, I was excited to see Lyle, and then I saw Lyle, and I said that that's not the same Lyle that I just saw,
Chelsea Devantez 29:26
yeah. And also, their story is so much darker, ladies, the way you dark, he did a comeback of, like, pure fiction, right? Where he's like, isn't it sexy? It's like, no, they were molested or molested for years, yeah? So it's like, let's not make it like, yeah.
Traci Thomas 29:41
You don't have to, yeah. I despise the way that Ryan Murphy does that, as a person who generally does consume some true crime content. For the most part, I found this one to be particularly distasteful to the point that actually couldn't finish the show, which is, I'm not usual, yeah, no, I'm not usually. Really that moralistic. But I was just like, this is Ick. This is Ick. I did go and watch some documentaries, though, because that felt less Ick. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Story less or just less sensationalized.
Chelsea Devantez 30:10
Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna say Martha Stewart in that. It's not like we went away and she's really, she's, she's, you know, gone to prison and come back yes
Traci Thomas 30:21
to okay,
Chelsea Devantez 30:24
but I do want to say strong. But that documentary, I think, really,
Sam Sanders 30:29
should I watch it?
Chelsea Devantez 30:30
Oh, 100% okay, 100% especially because someone else made the documentary, and she's not an EP with sign off on it. So it's totally different, because there's some really unflattering stuff in there that that made me like her more. And, okay, her little press tour of being like, they're like, oh blah, blah, blah. She's like, Oh well, Ryan Reynolds is not funny. I've met him. And she's just like, being an honest old lady. She's like, I've met him. He's not very funny. And now it's like a pull quote of like Ryan Reynolds, not funny, like
Sam Sanders 31:05
he also strikes me as the kind of guy who is so, so, so, so, so nice when the camera is around. I only assume he's a complete jerk when the cameras are off, but I'll never know. I'll never know he's in that stratosphere.
Chelsea Devantez 31:19
That's right. No, listen. Martha is telling on him. So I think she knows, come
Traci Thomas 31:23
on. Do you have a comeback? Sam? I mean, it's probably gonna
Sam Sanders 31:25
have to be Kendrick, because I listened to that last album, Mr. Morale and the big steppers girl that was tired. I will give Drake this. He put Kendrick back on his A game, angry Kendrick, battling Kendrick. That's the best Kendrick. You listen to g and x, he is on fire again, literally in Mr. Morale, he was rapping about, like, back pain, middle age therapy and parenthood. And then he said, Actually, no, fuck,
Traci Thomas 31:53
relatable for one album for me, I finally could enjoy Kendrick. So no, who else had a good comeback? Who is a old boy from the OC old
Sam Sanders 32:09
say, started to watch that show. Love him. Love their chemistry. The show was overrated,
Traci Thomas 32:15
yeah, but it was so cute. It was fun. It was a blast. People just need a rom com so badly, properly rated for a rom com. It was a good rom com.
Sam Sanders 32:23
Yes, yes. I know there was a whole discourse around there was a hope discourse that I skipped because not for me, but a discourse around what the show was saying about stereotypes of Jewish, Jewish women. I
Traci Thomas 32:35
will. Can I weigh in on that, though? Because I am a Jewish woman, and you know what else I am, I'm also a black woman. And you know, what's really interesting is there was also no very good representation of any black or brown people in the city of Los Angeles. I think the representation across the board was not great in that show. I also think that while there were a lot of Jewish stereotypes around the women, there were also a lot of horrible Jewish a lot of horrible stereotypes around Jewish men and white women, blonde women. I mean, I think the show is predicated on stereotypes. The sister comes off looking horrible. The brother comes off looking he is a very specific type of Jewish man that is not particularly like, you know. I just think, I think the show abounds in stereotypes. And I do think that the stereotypes around the Jewish women were not good. But I think overall, nobody, besides the two leads, come off looking anything other than extremely flat, including the gay dad character that was incredibly stereotypical.
Sam Sanders 33:29
I get what you're saying about them making a very much white LA, but I also know LA people who have built themselves very white la lives. That's
Traci Thomas 33:40
true. No, it's for sure, a life you could have, but just the idea that, like this show is supposed to be super well representative when it's like a rom com comedy, to me, I understand the criticism, but I think it took it. I think it was criticism in search of like someone to blame, as opposed to really, like taking the art for what it was and also, and I think like, again, the Jewish men do not come off looking good either, nor do the white people. The like straight chick says, like, they make that sister seem like an alcoholic slut, which is like a total blonde stereotype, right?
Sam Sanders 34:12
Well, listen, we've all been who hasn't been
Traci Thomas 34:16
Sure, sure. I guess that's more of my point. What was your movie of the year.
Sam Sanders 34:20
I got one. Okay, this indie slasher flick that more people should have been talking about. It's called strange darling. If I say too much, I'll give it away. Just watch it. It starts out and you think it's the typical slasher flick. You know, the guy wants to kill the girl, and he's chasing her, and then, every five minutes, this movie surprises and confuses and confounds and makes you rethink what a slasher film can do. I
Chelsea Devantez 34:56
love it. Go watch it. Ooh. Go watch it. Love that. Can I say one I loved and one that everyone else loved, that I'm mad at? Yeah? Oh, definitely. Okay, so first off, my movie The year is obviously the gutter by Yasser Lester, who is what my husband, um, however, and yeah. So yeah, we're giving that. We're giving that real NEPA wife plug, however, if you
Traci Thomas 35:20
really want them, though, you'd get a tattoo. That's all I'm saying, of
Sam Sanders 35:23
a gutter of a gunner.
Chelsea Devantez 35:26
Okay, it's a bowling movie. I'll put a bowling ball right right on a tit, just right over the nipple. Um, I know, you know, it's just been so long since there's been a Happy Madison, like, just big laugh, hard comedy, like wild character acting. And he did it about a black bowler starring, and it also stars Susan Sarandon. And, like, I just think he got something made that I just don't think. I don't know, I haven't seen anything like in a long time. And I think it's right, yeah, you can stream it. I think, yeah, you can rent it right now on any streaming service, and then I think it'll be on Hulu in a couple months. Oh, yeah, Hulu streams. So, yeah, okay, so, so now that I've gotten being a real wife out of the way, I do want to say I loved, like, mild ass, wicked, scrambled, like, yeah, and scrambled and my old ass are by like, indie female filmmakers. Oh, it's fantastic. It is about this woman who, like, freezes her eggs. But it's a true like, comedy, and it's, like, really lovely. Now I'm saying that so that I can hate on this movie, and you don't get mad at me. I can't wait. I'm so angry at the substance. What's
Traci Thomas 36:43
the substance? Go
Sam Sanders 36:45
off, sis. I have notes too. Go off. Oh,
Traci Thomas 36:49
thank you. Okay, this is why I had you guys on, because I haven't seen any of this shit. All I do
Sam Sanders 36:53
is go to movies. I ain't got no kids and no man, I just go to the movies by myself. Oh yeah, draft, mezcal, Negroni, I'll get wasted at draft house and take the train home. I don't go, Fuck. I
Chelsea Devantez 37:05
love that a movie alone is like the best date, okay? The substance makes me mad, because the entire premise, we have to believe that Demi Moore is an old, haggard cow and
Sam Sanders 37:18
looks nice, not
Chelsea Devantez 37:20
only does she, yeah, not only she fucking stunning, and she really is. If you're making a movie about beauty, I'm sorry, like, why are we putting my characters, like this ugly piece of shit on top of that? The actual actress, she's had so many plastic surgeries, and they've, they've laid beautifully, and, God bless her, do whatever you want with your life. But it's like, on top of that, it's not like you're even putting natural aging on screen, which is what the premise is, right? That being said, that's fine. However, the camera so intensely lingers on her naked body and
Sam Sanders 37:58
Margaret quali, oh, my god,
Chelsea Devantez 37:59
Margo quality, yeah, her naked body that it it really the movie kind of upends its own message, because it really is, like, showing, like, Margot qualities, perfect, she's perfect, her boobs, her tits, her puts, she's perfect, she's perfect. And the other girl was, like, old and ugly and haggard, and you're like, God, like, I think you're ruining your own message. And listen, that aside, because it has great monster effects. Has incredible style. It's shot really beautifully. The other two things I'm really mad about in this film is that it is the same story be over and over and over and over again, which is like she's young and hot. I'm really jealous and mad over and over and no heightening, no twists, no turns for two and a half hours. And the last thing I'll say, because I'll stop talking after this, is that it feels like the movie was a script in the 70s that got dusted off and made now. Because why is it called? Pump it up. That's not a thing. Why is it a network, cable workout show? That's that was of the 70s. That's Jane Fonda. Why is her name? Sue? Like it was just like, Yeah, nothing is making sense. And everyone is like, it's the beautiful, most, best, artistic movie of the year. And I feel like it's really anti feminist. I
Sam Sanders 39:06
think it would have been so much better as a tight 90 and I think it would have been so much better if they actually let Demi Moore talk. She doesn't really talk that much in the movie, talking about an Oscar nomination, which Fine, get it. Go ahead. I think the Academy will love that kind of comeback story that she has been on for the last several years. But I wanted to hear her more, yeah,
Chelsea Devantez 39:26
I think that's absolutely right. Like she really was just supposed to be there as a naked body, and for us to be like, ooh, and I yeah
Sam Sanders 39:32
for her, because look at her as to me more, yeah, yeah, wow,
Traci Thomas 39:39
yeah. I've never even heard of this movie. Now I'm gonna say it's really scary.
Sam Sanders 39:43
It's gory, but it's not scary. It's gory. It's also one of those plots that could have been a short film. Literally, it could have been 12 minutes. I
Chelsea Devantez 39:53
also want to say that, like people everywhere are like, I love this movie, so like, send Traci your DMS, not me.
Traci Thomas 39:59
The. No, no, I'm not seeing it. Don't send it to me. I won't know. Spoiler alert, listen, I am out there on a much bigger people movie. People are loving that I hated, which is wicked. I'm so out on wicked, you know, I love it. I didn't hate it. I thought it was fine. I think, I think it's something I think it suffers from what happened with Barbie, where everybody was so invested in it, they had to say they loved it because they cared about it for 19 months before it came out. I think it's fine. I think it's too long. I think that they don't care about musicals, which is fine. And I also think that I have, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts. You should listen to me on Sam Sanders Show. Bitch about it, but I really did not care for it. I thought it was fine. I don't think it's one of the great music, movie musicals, that's for sure. Like, I don't think it lives in that Pantheon at all, and a lot of people are acting as if it does, I
Sam Sanders 40:46
would just totally disagree with and I think that, like, I so whenever I think of like, offering a critical analysis of a piece of work, it's like, I have to know that I have two brains. There's going to be an analytical part of me that looks at and critiques and assesses the work theoretically. And then there's going to be the part of Sam that says, How did you feel right when it ended? And for me, the euphoria I felt at the end of wicked both times, outweighs any critique that I get in post. I just I finished the movie.
Traci Thomas 41:24
I was having a critique. As I was watching, I was feeling the the highest moment for me in the entire movie, the part the moment where I was like, Oh, this is working. I was with it all the way through the wizard, and I the wizard. And I is maybe a little better than the best number. I think it's the best number in the movie. But I think that goes to my point of that they chopped it up too much, and they didn't let the music do what the music is supposed to do. So you had these redundant sort of like scenes where they do all of the acting and all the drama of the scene, and then they tacked the song on in the end, instead of letting the song do what the song does, which the wizard and I does perfectly, because it has that build and it and they let her build it, and that's why she, like, runs the edge of that cliff. And you're like, you can
find this. And then I
was like, oh, okay, I
Chelsea Devantez 42:14
think you're making a great point for someone who has seen or knows about. Because if you go in cold and you haven't seen the movie, and you Sorry, you haven't seen the musical, you haven't read the book, and even if you've heard the music, like I did, those scenes, I do not think are redundant to, yes, the average
Traci Thomas 42:33
I don't. So what I'm saying is that I actually think that the movie is I did not like the movie. I thought it was fine. I actually think they had the bones there to make something that would have been transcendent if they had trusted the music more in the ways that they did with the wizard. And I I think that if they had cut a little bit from the meat of the scenes to make it clip faster and allowed the songs to do What songs do in a musical deliver that emotional punch and take you there, I think they could have gotten away. I think they could have made the movie better. Like, I don't think fierro's number needed to be so choppy, because it does that musically and lyrically and, like, story wise. But here's
Sam Sanders 43:11
the thing, and that's what I told you when you were on my show. I think you're watching this as a lover of theater and musical theater, and you know how to watch a musical song. I think a lot of people that go to a movie, when a song starts, they zone out and they actually don't listen to the lyrics. And I think John ju knew that, and it was like, I need to, like, literally hold these people's hands, because a lot of folks in this movie won't get musicals. I
Traci Thomas 43:41
understand that, and I agree with you. I do think that's what they did, yeah. But I fell in love with musicals and musical theater from watching them, from watching movie musicals. That's what taught me to love them. I didn't just I was I didn't just fall out of a coconut tree. Oh boy. But,
Chelsea Devantez 43:57
like, listen, I just fuck a couch. But yeah, we're all here. Yeah. Also,
Sam Sanders 44:03
John Chu knows that, like most movie goers aren't musical heads, and the track record for musicals, historically is pretty bad at the Bucha, really bad. Well,
Traci Thomas 44:14
recently it has been bad. But I also would argue a lot of them are recently have been bad. Like, I think my other big criticism is that I wish that they pulled the camera back and let, let us watch the musical like they used to do an olden day musicals that's like,
Sam Sanders 44:27
sounds like you need to watch Spielberg's West Side Story, because he does that. He pulls back. I
Traci Thomas 44:32
did watch he does and I did watch it. And I think those musical numbers work better, but I don't think they work as good as the original. And that's for different reasons.
Sam Sanders 44:38
But you're right, you're right,
Traci Thomas 44:39
you're right. Yeah, but yeah, but I think, but I think, I guess what I'm saying is, like, we'll never know what this could have been if he had trusted the musical and trusted the audience more to enjoy the musical. Like, there's just no way to know. But for me, I could feel there were moments that I think, if it had been tighter, if they had trusted the music more, it could have been better. Like in Chicago, they make changes. For the medium, Chicago trust the musical, and Chicago was really fucking good, one of the best, most recent movie musicals we've had, because they trusted the music and they had a point of view about the musical. And I think this movie had a point of view, but didn't trust the thing that it was supposed to be. Again, I understand people who love it. I'm not saying that those people are wrong. I'm just saying for me, I didn't like it because I wanted the clip of a musical. That's what makes it fun.
Sam Sanders 45:26
I get that I
Chelsea Devantez 45:28
loved every second, except for the cinematography and Michelle yo singing, yeah.
Sam Sanders 45:31
I loved every Yeah, her singing,
Chelsea Devantez 45:36
like, ingrained like, like, I could, I could talk shit on the cinematography, as I'm sure all of Tiktok could do. Not it did not take a second away of my enjoyment of the movie, though. And I was crying my heart out, and I have not seen nuanced female characters like that, and so fucking long I sobbed. When does the villain also get to be funny? Also get to be the girl, the it girl? She's not
Traci Thomas 45:57
really the villain. She's only the villain in this movie because they stopped the movie halfway through. She's the hero too. She is no, she all right. Well, whatever, spoiler alert, she's
Sam Sanders 46:08
good. I will say I have a newfound respect for Ariana Grande. I do me too. I do for
Chelsea Devantez 46:14
SNL. Before doing the movie, I went, Oh, wait a minute. She's the most talented person alive. Oh, my God, I had no idea. Have
Sam Sanders 46:21
you seen the reaction video where her and Cynthia talk through experiencing the I'm in queer media moment? Oh, that alone. Ariana should, should get an Emmy for it. It's so good. Okay.
Traci Thomas 46:36
Please send it please. Yeah. Okay. Next one who had the biggest downfall this year?
Chelsea Devantez 46:42
Blake Lively, or Jay Z Drake.
Traci Thomas 46:45
I was gonna go with Puff Daddy.
Sam Sanders 46:47
Oh yeah. I kind of tried to just watch
Chelsea Devantez 46:50
Drake, Puff Daddy, Blake Lively and Jay Z and J Lo all walk into a bar together. No. Jay low's okay. She's got herself on her little life raft again. She's Yeah, no. Also,
Traci Thomas 46:59
is this this year? Is this last year? Jonathan majors? Oh,
Sam Sanders 47:03
snap. He never really, this is the thing about Jonathan majors. He was never a name known inside the coasts, never he was not actually that. I
Traci Thomas 47:13
think, yeah, I think Jay Z will be our biggest downfall next year. I
Sam Sanders 47:18
don't you think it'll be a downfall. Because, I mean, I do, I think, I don't know. I think if, if, if team Beyonce is working on this, they will Olivia Pope it, but are they working together on it? Or is Beyonce like you're on your own player? You know,
Chelsea Devantez 47:35
you met me when I was 16. Go, yeah. I
Traci Thomas 47:37
mean, yes. I think, I think, no matter what happens? It's gonna be the story of 2025 and
Chelsea Devantez 47:43
yeah, you're right. Did you guys see that? Tina Knowles like one of the posts she liked, and then yeah, was like, you guys, I was hacked. And it's like, Tina, nobody hacks you to like a single post about Jay Z's rape allegations, and there's no way you got your account back that fast, had I well? And then
Sam Sanders 48:03
there was this other thing where Beyonce was posting something, and the name they used in the image was not Beyonce Knowles Carter, it was just Beyonce Knowles something. Was a foot Wait, she something. She posted that she only knows it was like a post of a thing that she was in, but she had sign up on the name, and she only knows it. She only knows Okay,
Traci Thomas 48:27
okay, yes, okay, we're gonna push this to 2025, we'll revisit this next
Sam Sanders 48:32
year. Also prediction for Beyonce, that halftime show is gonna be so glitchy because Netflix can't do live. And I'm scared. Oh,
Traci Thomas 48:37
the Christmas Day Houston, I'm scared. Yeah, it's
Sam Sanders 48:41
gonna just buffer half the time. But
Traci Thomas 48:44
what's it really gonna be? Because here's the thing, it's not just a halftime show at a football game in in fucking December. It
Sam Sanders 48:51
might not be a pre tape. It might all be a pre tape from a soundstage. Yeah,
Traci Thomas 48:54
it's gonna be, it's gotta be an announcement of something. Why else? She's not the tour, she's not dying, she's announcing the tour cowboy card. She's gonna, I think she's gonna do as much money
Sam Sanders 49:04
out of us as she possibly can. It might be a residency at the sphere in Vegas, but she's doing something. I
Traci Thomas 49:10
think she's gonna do a sit down at like the grand old Opry.
Sam Sanders 49:13
No, she will not go to Nashville. She's not going. I could see her in the sphere, just being at the sphere for like, a year. And you
Traci Thomas 49:24
know what? I could also see. I could see her doing a sit down somewhere further away to get away from Jay Z as his empire crumbles while she's just casually, I'm going to London. Yes, yeah, yes, announcing I will be taking Toronto.
Sam Sanders 49:39
She already has a divorce album Ready. Oh
Traci Thomas 49:43
yeah, for sure. Maybe that's why part three is, what if she, what if part three is her divorce album, and she knew this was coming and just timed the shit all
Sam Sanders 49:51
her mind, her mind.
Traci Thomas 49:55
It's giving vision. Who else did you say? You said, Oh, Blake. Live. Like,
Sam Sanders 50:00
I still don't get what happened with that, because everyone's like, Oh, she's she's dead now she's over. It's like, the movie made a bunch of money and she's still rich. Like, I don't understand.
Traci Thomas 50:10
I definitely her downfall and Puff Daddy's downfall are different levels of downfall, sure, sure. But like, maybe he'll do time, yeah. And maybe that he committed a lot of crimes, and hers is that she just committed a crime against fashion with some of those outfits.
Chelsea Devantez 50:24
No, no, it's actually more than that. So, so first, I want to be on record and say that like when the press tour of like the Justin Baldoni drama with Blake Lively came about,
Sam Sanders 50:33
it's also so hot I'm sorry. God damn, he's gonna
Traci Thomas 50:36
fucking play Luca maggio Luigi. Maggio Luigi,
Sam Sanders 50:40
oh,
call me Mario, baby. Call me mommy.
Traci Thomas 50:45
Call me mommy.
Chelsea Devantez 50:49
So when all of that came out, I had an early Patreon post that honestly got a lot of pushback, where I was like, Hey, you guys, like, red flag. This man wrote a book called, like, undoing my masculinity. He has a podcast called, like, Ally boy or whatever. I'm making this up, but it's something like that. And then he also went and got the ends with us rights to make the movie, which is a movie about domestic violence. And I said, methinks, too much. Something is afoot. And everyone turned on him, like including Colleen Hoover and all those people. So obviously something was afoot. I'm not saying that's not true. But what was more focused on was Blake Lively, possibly being a mean girl. And then they found, like decades of evidence to that fact, like press tours, things to co stars, like constantly, constant, things like that. And then I think you really look at Blake's career, Age of Adeline, uh, what else we got here? Anything else she's been in, Gossip Girl. Come on, though, like, recently, well, so I've seen her end. You're like, Yeah, her career is not over. But also, like, she's failed to launch her goop. Because it was like, you know, she had a goop to overtly racist. She tried, wait, what was racist? Okay, well, first they got married,
Sam Sanders 52:01
and, okay, can I just side by real quick? All of the South is a plantation. I just, I don't, May, okay, but here's the thing, New Jersey was a slave for
Chelsea Devantez 52:13
your wedding, and you're like, what are these little houses in that? Oh, my God, this, but cakes in that? Like, you know, at some point. But here's, it doesn't matter, you know, fine, put that aside. She did have a magazine that was, like, celebrating old southern charm the right way. And it was like, Oh, God, what's the word right? Called the sorority walls, where they like, dress up like women, not debut. Cotillion, okay, yeah, no. Cotillion, I don't know anyways. So some of those things happened. She tried to launch her alcohol line, even though she doesn't drink. That got pushed back. She tried to launch her haircare line that got pushed back. So I think she was really launching this huge you know, I am Reese withers who, and I am Martha Stewart, and it like didn't take flight, and I don't know what's
Sam Sanders 52:51
next. Yeah, wow, yeah, okay, I should I watch the movie? I
Traci Thomas 52:56
didn't see it. Well, we did it ends with us for book club this year, and it was a ride, but I did not see the movie because, you know what? I committed to reading the book. I asked people to read the book with me. I didn't, and I
Sam Sanders 53:09
I've heard it's not the best book, writing
Traci Thomas 53:11
the No, the writing's horrible. The book is horrible. The domestic violence part of the book, I think, I think people love to hate Colleen Hoover for a lot of reasons, but she's paid after she's paid. But I think, after reading the book, I think that the representation of domestic violence is a version of domestic violence that does exist for some people, specifically calling Hoover's parents, who she based the story off of. I don't know that. I think that the representation is good at all, but I also don't think that some of the hate that she gets about this version of the story is completely fair, given the fact that it's a novel that being said, she's a horrible writer, and it's not very good. But I think people acted as if she romanticized, romanticized violence, and spoiler alert, like she doesn't end up with the abuser she gets out of that relationship. She draws like a line around like it's complicated, but it's not as if he is the as far as romance goes, he's not the romantic center of the book. He's very clearly a monster. There's very clear warning signs. She gets out of the relationship rather quickly, like it sort of is a romanticization of domestic violence in the sense that it goes so smoothly for the character, but it's not one in the sense that he is the way the book's written. Now, people on the internet have decided that he's super hot and they fetishize the abuser, but I don't think that that falls squarely on Colleen Hoover. So that's the culture. That's the culture exactly like that is, that is young women thinking, yeah,
Sam Sanders 54:43
and it's all true crime. There's always this kind of, not all, but like a lot of true crime, it's like, the killer's a little hot, the killer's a little this, like, there's so much Traci,
Chelsea Devantez 54:52
like the Menendez brothers are not,
Traci Thomas 54:55
not the fake, but not the real ones, not the true crime, the fake crime. So, I mean. I think it's really complicated, and I think like it's worth discussing. But I also think that Colleen Hoover, because of her who she is and her positionality, I think people are harder on that particular book's content than I think is maybe warranted. However, the book is fucking bad. The writing is bad. There are diary entries to Ellen DeGeneres, a 16 year old girl, Dear Ellen. She calls them her Ellen diaries, and then she recaps events in her life to Ellen in her diary, like it's that writing, you know, like I'm not so I and the portrayal of domestic violence is equally bad as that level of writing, I guess is what I'm saying. It's but it's not great. Yeah, okay, let's do because we're sort of out of time. Let's do, do we have a favorite villain of the year?
Sam Sanders 55:51
My favorite villain of the year is Drake. He's become the villain. But as soon as you read the lawsuit on some of these grounds. He's right. His lawsuits not against Kendrick Lamar, it's against Universal Records and some of the streamers. And he basically accuses him of all doing, like modern day payola. He's right. He's right. We all
Traci Thomas 56:16
thing, yeah, I can't say anything complimentary towards I know, but he's right. We love this for you, yeah,
Sam Sanders 56:21
you know, we all think that the algorithms on these platforms are just reading us to give us what we want, but they can be tampered with and played with, and labels can manipulate them, artists can, and everyone knows it, and that's what his suit calls out. So in that regard, he's right. So he's my favorite villain, because even in his horrible villainy, he was right about a thing that needs to be spoken to. I hate even saying that. I hate even
Traci Thomas 56:47
then I have a favorite villain on those grounds, of course. Okay,
Sam Sanders 56:50
yeah, Luigi.
Chelsea Devantez 56:51
Luigi. Oh. Luigi is right. Can we even call right? I mean,
Traci Thomas 56:56
murder is not great. I'm not gonna go all in on murder, however, on the grounds of his argument, there you go. He's not wrong. There you go. He's the Drake of murder. Do not,
Sam Sanders 57:07
do not. Do not besmirch my Luigi in that manner. Don't okay. I would never,
Traci Thomas 57:11
I'm sorry. I shouldn't ever anyone I have any fond feelings towards, towards Drake. I mean, I think it's a much more complicated situation. But on those grounds, he's certainly my favorite villain. He's an anti hero. How about that? About
Sam Sanders 57:22
that? There we go. Q Taylor, the song, yeah. I
Traci Thomas 57:26
mean, that's gonna be Herman boyfriend. Next story of 2025 she's leaving Travis Kelsey. She's going to the anti hero Luigi together. I want to just
Sam Sanders 57:36
imagine Luigi is gay. That's what I want. He's
Chelsea Devantez 57:39
bi. I thought, well, there's, there's deep rumors that he's bi. Yeah, yeah, those eyebrows
Sam Sanders 57:43
are bisexual,
Traci Thomas 57:44
and so is toy, right? Allegedly, Gaylord Karlie
Chelsea Devantez 57:49
Kloss, I don't know. I don't think she's, I don't know, but, but what I will say to to old boy, Luigi, where it's like, it's hard to find a word for him, because, you know, every sitcom, every politician, every piece of shit, especially in 2016 who wrote for think pieces where, like, the country just needs to come together. Why can't we just have a conversation and meet in the middle? And you're always like, fuck off. Like, you know that is not what's happening. And yet, this man brought the country together. Specifically in Ben Shapiro's comments, where, where people were telling Ben Shapiro, like, how? Like, oh, you just want, like, literally, people wrote, Ben Shapiro, you just want us to hate the other side because I want healthcare. Like, why are you saying these things? And I was like, Whoa, someone has brought the country together. And also it just Yes, I also don't believe in murder. And I know you guys are on the same page of this, but it's like, I don't believe in murder, and I don't believe that CEO should have murdered so many people by denying their health claim. So if we're mad at murderers, I'm very mad at that one
Traci Thomas 58:54
Yes, the question. I mean, yes, I the CEO monster, the health the health insurance company monsters, they deny a third of all claims. That's horrible. Thing is, like, I, I'm always thinking about these kinds of stories of, like, substitute one black person in, and all of a sudden, if we have vigilante black Luigi, if we have, you know, imagine
Sam Sanders 59:15
if it was prison Bay and he's, yeah, right, right. Imagine prison they doing it.
Traci Thomas 59:21
Like, I'm just already, I don't believe in murder, because if Luigi is Tyrone,
Chelsea Devantez 59:25
I don't want it. I don't want that. I don't want that. You don't want that for Tyrone, Tyrone, you don't, yeah, like, I'm just
Traci Thomas 59:33
saying like, like, if, or if Luigi is an ugly white guy,
Chelsea Devantez 59:38
I think an ugly white guy would still be, Oh, my God. They would be like, Yeah, fucking goofy. They were ready to, I don't wash it this matter, no matter
Traci Thomas 59:46
who he was, guy, vigilante ing, a black CEO, right? Like, I'm just like, so I'm always substantial
Chelsea Devantez 59:51
murder. We are not
Sam Sanders 59:55
say if the CEO of United Healthcare were. Any color, I'd still be like, fuck that guy.
Traci Thomas 1:00:02
Okay, but do you want all those think pieces? No, you don't. I don't want a world. I'm not saying that. I don't want him dead. I don't want it
Sam Sanders 1:00:17
discourse. I don't want the discourse. Yeah, yeah. Well, I
Traci Thomas 1:00:22
think that's about right? I think is there anything? Is there anything that either of you were dying to talk about that we didn't get to we didn't really talk about TV, because no
Sam Sanders 1:00:30
one does these days. TV's in a rut. Streaming is weird right now. Streaming is weird right now. I don't know how to find good stuff. I don't know how to get the good stuff. Every app confuses me.
Traci Thomas 1:00:41
It's weird. I haven't finished a show. I've finished like two shows in the last like 10 years, right? We're really
Chelsea Devantez 1:00:47
feeling the effects of the strike reverberating in the year now, which would have had all of that content then, and not just like, oh, the writers went on strikes were feeling the content. I think it's more like people getting squeezed out of the business, only rich people and with rich daddies, call me Daddy, can like, survive and like, all these, like, unique voices getting squeezed out. I think we're really feeling it, and I'm just like praying we turn it around. Are
Traci Thomas 1:01:11
we feeling in movies and TV, or do you feel like we're feeling it more in TV? I think
Chelsea Devantez 1:01:15
we're feeling it both, but I think we're especially feeling it in TV, I think a little bit less so because we still have indie movies, and so you still like, listen, I know I yelled about it, but happy, happy that a female director got the substance made. Like, go off. But I mean, when I thought of my favorite TV this year, and I'm a fucking TV writer, I love TV. I thought of documentaries. I thought of America sweethearts. So good. Remember America sweetheart? Yeah, we're just like, that was maybe the show of the year for me. And it was a, it was Docu series, and that's, that's pretty heartbreaking.
Traci Thomas 1:01:47
I thought of love is blind, yeah. Oh, that North Carolina season. But also I the one scripted thing I watched this year that I was like, whoa. And this will surprise exactly zero people, is my boyfriend show. Say nothing, executive produced by my boyfriend, Patrick rod and Keefe, author of the book, say nothing that. I mean, it's so I think it's so well directed. I think it's so well acted captions, because those accidents are heavy. Yes, you do need captions. I needed them, and I needed them, and I knew the story, and I'd read the book, but it's one of those adaptations where I went in being like, the book is better than the show, and I still think the book maybe is better than the show, but the show does things. The show has a point of view about the book and does things you can only do on screen in a way that like justifies the adaptation. It's not just like a direct one for one like, there's scenes that are sort of alluded to in the book that, like, really pop in on the show where, like, where Mr. Stacks was asking me, like, what did this happen blah, blah, blah, in the movie or in the book? And I was like, I don't remember this scene. So, like, it was they really found, like, pockets to make it work. So I was really, really impressed. He
Sam Sanders 1:02:58
also was cute. Patrick Radke, he is,
Traci Thomas 1:03:01
he's so hot and so nice, and I love him. And I met him this year, and I told him that I call him my boyfriend. And he was like, I love that. I was like, I bet you do. Speaking
Sam Sanders 1:03:11
of books, let me just kind of just call out, like it. This book was not written for me, but it spoke to me as newly single gay man who turned four perimenopausal, menopausal, as someone experiencing my own gay male perimenopause. All Fours got me in the snatch. It got me I felt that book. I felt that book. Did you've read Chelsea? You read it? I
Traci Thomas 1:03:36
love it.
Chelsea Devantez 1:03:37
I have not read it. I know
Sam Sanders 1:03:40
she's controversial. Miranda,
Chelsea Devantez 1:03:42
July, not for me. I love her. I love her
Sam Sanders 1:03:45
films. Oh, that book was good.
Traci Thomas 1:03:47
It's in our top 10 books of the year this year, I didn't pick it. MJ Franklin from the New York Times picked it, because how we do top 10 is we each pick three books and then we agree on one. So every so it's like a really, it's not just my opinion, yeah, and I didn't read it everyone. It's one of the books that was for our awards. Was up for best book we didn't have on the show, and also most hated book of the year, like it has been so polarizing, yeah, um, yeah. So who knows? I probably will never read it. I just know I'm gonna hate it, and I hate reading things that I know I'm gonna hate going in. How do you know you're gonna hate it? Because I don't, I don't like hers, her kind of zany. It's just not a thing that I enjoy, you know, I don't like stand up comedy, you know, I just don't. You have to
Chelsea Devantez 1:04:27
say this is why I know Traci is a good friend, because she likes my book, but it has a lot of jokes in it, and I know those were like tiny needles in your eyes, and you still loved me and read,
Traci Thomas 1:04:38
looked at parts of your book. But also, Chelsea, I know your comedy gal memoir, unfortunately for you, actually, it's a real, like, heartwarming story or heartbreaking story. You think it's all jokey, jokey, haha, I'm so funny. And then it's like, actually, bitch, do you want to hear all these horrible things that have happened to me and how I somehow am a strong woman who pulled through? And look at my empire now like it's giving redemptive arc, unfortunately for your little jokes.
Chelsea Devantez 1:05:05
Okay, honestly, I love this. I got diagnosed at the beginning. I got diagnosed at the end, and I got diagnosed in the middle as dressing like a prince bro from 2016 like I have to do tonight, look in the mirror. Yeah, I'll send
Traci Thomas 1:05:18
you my therapist check and voice me and voice me. Well, I love you both so much. You're amazing. Thank you for doing this with me. Anytime that
Sam Sanders 1:05:27
I can eat pizza and drink beer while working, Sign me up. Same,
Chelsea Devantez 1:05:31
same. Adore you both. This was a great way to end the year.
Traci Thomas 1:05:36
All right, y'all and we will see you in the stacks.