Unabridged: The Performance of Gender with Aaron Jay Young - Transcript
Los Angeles photographer Aaron Jay Young visits The Stacks Unabridged to discuss Queen, a portrait book celebrating the art of drag. We learn how his book came to be and what he’s learned about the performance of gender through photographing drag queens. Aaron also reveals how he approaches his subjects to get the right shot.
TRANSCRIPT
Traci Thomas 0:00
Hi everybody, its Traci Thomas host of The Stacks and I'm here with another bonus episode of The Stacks Unabridged. I am joined today by Aaron J. Young, who is a photographer and made this beautiful book called Queen. And it's photos of drag queens. And he and I talked today about the book, why he made it, what drag has to tell us or teach us about gender and expression and performance. If you saw the pictures I posted on my Instagram, from The Stacks anniversary party at Reparations Club, those sorts of glam shots, then you've seen Aaron's work, he was the photographer, so we get to talk about all of that good stuff. Okay, enough for me. Now it's time to dive into my conversation with Aaron J. Young, the author and photographer behind Queen.
All right, everybody. Welcome to The Stacks Unabridged. I'm really excited today. I have I think for the first time ever, the author and photographer behind a gorgeous photo book. His name is Aaron J. Young. The book is called Queen. Aaron, welcome to The Stacks.
Aaron Jay Young 1:21
Hi, Traci, thank you so much for having me.
Traci Thomas 1:23
I'm so excited. So for folks who don't follow me on Instagram, you maybe have not seen Aaron's photos yet, but he came to the Stacks anniversary party and took the most stunning pictures of me and everyone who was there. And I cannot tell you how good Aaron is; he literally makes just us regular regulars look like supermodels. So I'm really excited to figure out the secrets behind that. But before we get to that, can you just in like 30 seconds or so tell people about Queen about the book?
Aaron Jay Young 1:54
Sure. So Queen the book is a coffee table book. There's a little bit of like reading at the front end, some introductions and things. But then it's mostly a coffee table picture book, it is all of the drag community. We shot everything at an event in New York and LA called the RuPaul Drag Con, I think there's about 130 to 40 photographs total. And yeah, it was just really cool being at an event like that. And being able to sort of create like a studio setting was really interesting, because we could sort of capture these queens in a really elegant sort of timeless way. And then we also got to incorporate some of like the fans that were at the event as well, which created this really interesting visual thing. Those those photos are oftentimes people's favorite photos of the books.
Traci Thomas 2:45
Yes, I have a lot of questions about those photos. And also what's really cool is that every queen is taken in front of the same backdrop. So it's like they all are uniform in the sense that they're like in the same space. But each one is their own unique person, which is really cool. Because it you really get to see the differences, right? Like if you would take in pictures of them, like in places that went with their outfits, like it would be really different. But with this, it's like everybody, it's sort of like a democratization of of the photo, which I sort of loved. How did you come up with the idea of doing it that way of having just like the one backdrop for everybody, and going like and why did you want to go to drag con as opposed to like having people come to your studio or go to them?
Aaron Jay Young 3:23
Well, so I going back like about 10 years, I was introduced to the drag community working on RuPaul's Drag Race. Back in the day, I worked on the show for about three years. And then ever since then I've periodically photographed drag queens. But in order to do a body of work that's this big. I think, for any subject matter, it would you know, it would take a lot of time, there's gonna be challenges. Getting every single one of those subjects to come into my studio probably wasn't realistic, just because they're from all over the country and world. And so the idea originally came from, I think it was the very first drag con i went and just to the event. And that's what sparked this idea. I was like, okay, all these all these drag queens are in one place. So how cool would it be to sort of take advantage of that, and see how many queens I could photograph. And so the following year, we got a couple of booths and put them together and created this sort of photo studio there. Which was It was fun. And it was cool, but it wasn't exactly what I had envisioned. It was hard to get a lot of the queens to come to the booth because they were busy at their own booth with their own vans. And so it wasn't necessarily a failure, but it wasn't what I was envisioning. Right so we sort of out of that experiment and not having a go exactly how I wanted that the idea came of, you know, how could we make this easier for them? So it was like, what if we had like a row mean sort of studio that we could just move around the floor, and we could go to each of the Queens booths. And then it'd be really easy in theory for them to just come out for, you know, a few minutes, be photographed, and then they could go about their business. And then in doing that, then that sort of expanded into those really cool photos where, you know, we got to incorporate everything else that was going on around them at the time.
Traci Thomas 5:33
Yeah. So it was it like on was it like, just like the backdrop was on wheels?
Aaron Jay Young 5:37
Yeah, backdrop was on wheels. And then we had, I always had one person who is my designated sort of light stand, who was always holding holding our lights. And then there'd be one or two other people that were just sort of like wrangling and asking people to be a part of the photos and everything.
Traci Thomas 5:56
When you set out to do this project, did you know it was gonna be a book? Or did you think it was just like, I want to document this or like, take all these pictures and see what happened.
Aaron Jay Young 6:05
So oftentimes, in my career, when I'm doing things that start off sort of as a personal project and call it my personal project, there's always like a far off kind of goal or dream that I'm sort of walk working towards. So yeah, I thought, you know, this would be after, after the first year that we shot it that way that we that we got those photos, I thought, Okay, this could very easily be a coffee table book, I had no idea of that, like how to go about that, or what that would mean. So that was sort of this far off goal that one day, it could turn into that. And I just thought until, until that happens, I'm going to just continue to create this work every year and sort of just be ready for for when that opportunity shows up.
Traci Thomas 6:43
Okay, and I know, you said you worked on RuPaul drag race. But I guess like, bigger than that, that was your introduction to like, sort of drag queen culture. But bigger than that, like, why did you stick with shooting drag queens? What is it about them, that is like exciting to you as an artist.
Aaron Jay Young 6:59
When I was working on the show, and being introduced to drag in that way, it was like, I was like being introduced to this art form at like, the highest level. And, you know, I can be an artist myself, I really connected with that. I've always found it really fascinating. Artists who do things that I'm completely unfamiliar with, but that do them really, really well. And so, you know, I would oftentimes be on set, like watching them get into makeup, or do these challenges where they would have to make their own looks and everything. And I was just always blown away by by how creative everybody is. Across the board doing all these different things. And so I've just sort of been fascinated with him as artists ever since. And I guess that that was kind of that was kind of the thing that started it all off.
Traci Thomas 7:52
Okay, I don't know if you have an answer, but you can make one up, this is your chance to shine. Here we go. It's actually might be a stupid question, too. And I do believe in stupid questions. So just to get that on the record. In the book, right, there's a lot of drag queens who look like traditionally what I would think like a drag queen looks like but there's also a lot of folks who are like, kind of just in costume. Like, what's the difference between, like a costume and a drag queen?
Aaron Jay Young 8:20
Well, I mean, I think that drag encompasses a very wide reaching range of things. And I don't know, even if there is like a clear cut definition, like I you know, how RuPaul is famous for saying we're all born naked, and the rest is drag? Yeah, I kind of look at it like that. I mean, you can, you can do drag by doing the most elaborate kind of like look and makeup, or you could do it very, very understated. And it also dragon comparisons, there's a lot of different kinds of drag, like there's, there are people who really want to look Ultra feminine and want to really pull off that fantasy. And then there are queens who want to look like spooky and scary. And then there's queens that do more cosplay costumey kind of stuff. And there are drag kings, you know, where people are dressing up as a more masculine form of drag. So there's just there's so much you know.
Traci Thomas 9:23
Right, right. I just was thinking because, like, you know, like, other cons like Comic Con, there's outfits in here, there's people in here I'm like, you could just like go right over to ComiCon and nobody would be like, Oh, that's a drag queen, right? Like, there are people who are like, like dressed up in more like cosplay looks that are sort of not tied to necessarily like what I would think of as drag right and so I interesting interested to know if there's like any clear delineation between those things, or if it's sort of just like, Whatever feels great, like, do you and like, just as long as your face looks great, as long as you're beaten like, the costume is Say like you got it. My there's the spookiest, coolest picture on page 56. The like upside down ahead one. That is the craziest thing. I mean, people you can't you have to get the bucks. Yeah, but it is a person with their head upside down. And like holding a doll with their head upside down and the hair is upside. I don't know, I just was like, That's a drag queen. Like, that's amazing, because it's totally not what I would expect, right? Like the person on the cover. And like the yellow dress like that, to me is like, what you like what I think of when I think of like drag, right? And so like people who are doing sort of like spooky or creepy or things were really surprising and exciting to me.
Aaron Jay Young 10:44
Yeah. So it's funny, I knew you were going to mention that photo when you said there's like one specific photo, because that that photo stands out to a lot of people. So that that person's name is Glen Allen, and he is an Emmy winning makeup artists. Drag and, you know, his his art and drag, oftentimes, I would say kind of at times, it kind of goes into the world of like performance art. And he's also like, I think that was the first time I met him was at that drag con. And then since we've become good friends, and he's been a part of all of the events so far that we've done like LA Palm Springs, we just did a book signing in, in Palm Springs, and he actually came in that exact look. And it was doing everybody, everybody loved it. And he's so sweet. And that's like a perfect example of you know, something that you wouldn't maybe normally think of, but it's incredibly creative. And just like next level.
Traci Thomas 11:42
Yeah, yeah, I love it. There's another one that's like someone's like, dressed up, like kind of like the Joker from Batman. Right? And like that, to me. I was like, Oh, that's right. Like, it's like, oh, I guess so sure. The eye makeup on that person is so good. But it's like, if that person walked into Comic Con, you know, cross the street went to Comic Con people would not have any clue that they had come from Dragon Con, for whatever, like, the costumes, some of them feel like they could fit into so many different spaces, which I guess is like kind of cool.
Aaron Jay Young 12:13
And I love that it's kind of exciting. I love it. The book is sort of expanding what your preconceived idea of drag was, because that's that's exactly what I wanted it to do, like I wanted it to, I want it to expand beyond like just like a drag race book, or I wanted it to really encompass a lot of different kinds of drag so that you could really see how far reaching the art form is.
Traci Thomas 12:37
I love that. When you I've never been to drag con but at drag con. Are there also performances? Like is there like a main stage where people do like singing and dancing and stuff? Or is it just like walking around and going to booths because like different conferences have like different sort of vibes?
Aaron Jay Young 12:51
Oh, it's everything. I mean, there is a main stage. And there are like scheduled performances throughout the days in the evenings. There's, I mean, there are queens who sing live there. There's the classic lip synching queens, oftentimes a lot of queens who like that were on drag race will do these incredible performances. And there's also at the event, there's there are lots of like panel discussions. They also now do live tapings of certain shows that are on while present presents plus, like the world of wonder streaming service. And yeah, so that I mean, if you're like a fan of drag, even if you're not a huge fan of drag, it's still a fun event to go to and to just to just be a part of, especially if you're a part of the queer community, because it's just the space to where for a couple of days, you can feel really safe, really connected to people who are like you, and I think it's probably a really powerful event for young people to go to.
Traci Thomas 13:48
Yeah, it sounds I mean, it sounds so great. I mean, these pictures made me I was like, Maybe I need to go I like I don't want to totally go like Yeah, yeah, I have a great time. Okay, I want to talk about a little bit about the organization of the book itself. How did you decide which pictures to put together? Like which people got their own page versus some of them? It's like, some people got two full pages, right? Some pictures, some pictures, it's like one per page some it's like four going across, whatever. So how did you decide who went with who and also like which ones you wanted to feature? Was it just like, these are the ones I like, or were you working on telling a story or what like what was What's that process like?
Aaron Jay Young 14:28
It was quite a it was a long process. It was a collaboration between the publisher, Pathak publishing and their editor and myself and many months of I mean, it started off with like me, sort of just getting like going through all of the work, which was probably close to like 200 photographs to begin with, and then sort of like editing that down to photos that I thought were like book worthy. Yeah, and that oftentimes had nothing to do with the person that I photographed was more like, you know, I read, like, I couldn't use all the photos, I really had to do some elimination. And so that was what I presented with the publisher. And then from there, we had to edit down even further. And then as far as, like the layout that had to do with the editor, themselves, and it was, it was just many meetings, many back and forth. And, you know, I'm a big believer in like, collaboration, especially on I mean, even with photoshoots in themselves, but a project like this, where, you know, I've never had a book published before, there was a lot of value, and just in just leaning on the publisher leaning on the editor, and, you know, their expertise. And then, you know, I think we all came together. And the final product is really beautiful. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of like, you know, meetings where I'm like, questioning, like, Okay, why are the Why would you put these photos together and whatever. And oftentimes, like, when it was explained to me, I was like, Okay, that makes sense that actually, you know-
Traci Thomas 15:59
I think what, what kind of answer would you get?
Aaron Jay Young 16:02
Sometimes it was just visually, like, the layout visually, like, sometimes I had to do with the flow of the book, the feel of the flow, sometimes it was like, okay, these photos, just visually, for different reasons, feel like they kind of go together, you know, answers like that.
Traci Thomas 16:17
Yeah, I mean, I, when I was like, looking through it, like, what I noticed is, it would be like, if there were like, scary ones, like they would kind of be like, grouped together, or like, really like, pictures that were framed and like a certain way, like, really, like where the person really takes up the background, those ones often got, like a big, a big spread. Whereas if they were kind of like, smaller on the background, they got like, kind of like a smaller they I don't know, I was just like kind of making it up in my head of like, what works? Or like, what, what might have been the reasoning behind grouping people together? Yeah. And then some of the people are just like, some of the pictures are just so good. Like, they have to be big, like this one. This one, it's on page, what is it? AD, you can have this person be small, right? Like, it's way too, too glamorous. That's my opinion. Let's talk about the framing, because you mentioned like, in some of the photos, we have the queen on the background, but then we can see like the people around them in the conference, and it sort of like reminds us that we're in this shared space. So what was it for you that made you want to do that?
Aaron Jay Young 17:24
I mean, that was something that sort of unfolded organically, pretty quickly, when we started photographing the Queen's in this way. I mean, it's, it's been interesting to hear people's different kinds of interpretations of those photos. For me, I think it's really interesting that we're, I've always found it really interesting to capture, like a studio setting. But then to kind of show the behind the scenes a little bit where you can kind of see like this, this is a set, we're not trying to like fool you into thinking that's something that it's not, I just always been drawn to those kinds of photos, where you can see like the edge of the backdrop or you can kind of see what's going on, that's creating the photo. And so I went in with like that visual kind of idea. And then it just became really interesting to capture, like the fans in the photographs, like oftentimes, it's like, the the Queen themself is sort of framed with the backdrop. And then you've got all these people around them. So it kind of shows this interesting relationship between sort of like celebrity and like fan or spectator and like, you know, the celebrity or whatever. So I just, I just thought that that was like a really interesting thing to be able to capture.
Traci Thomas 18:39
I love it. I think it's so cool. I'm like to see the people's faces like when they're really excited or like people who are just walking by and kind of like looking and you like capture them kind of like being nosy you know,
Aaron Jay Young 18:51
to capture all those different that different energy coming from the people.
Traci Thomas 18:55
Yeah, and like it also, like changes depending on what the person's wearing. Right? Like some of the creepier ones, people are like, really in awe. They're like, holy shit, what's that? Right. And I like I just love that. I feel like it's also like a reflection of what I'm feeling as I'm looking at the pictures, right? Like, oftentimes the other faces that aren't the queen are the ones that I'm looking at, like, oh, yeah, that's how I felt the moment I saw that, right? How did your opinions or how have your opinions about like, drag and its relationship to gender changed as you sort of been doing this work? Like, has it revealed anything to you about or like, changed how you think about gender sort of more broadly?
Aaron Jay Young 19:34
Yeah, I mean, when I when I started working on drag race, I had pretty much just moved from the east coast from small town, Pennsylvania to Los Angeles. So I mean, being gay myself, I still hadn't really been exposed to a lot of things that were a part of like the queer community. So when I first started learning about drag, like I didn't really know anything about it like I didn't No, I sort of have gotten like an education over the years and continue to learn. You know, I think a big one is like the differentiation between gender and drag, you know, like, like somebody's somebody's doing drag is its own thing. And you can be any gender, you can identify as any gender, and you can still do drag, you know, and the difference between, like, being a drag performer and like being somebody who is trans, you know, completely different things, you can be trans and be a drag queen. But I think sometimes people sort of like lump things together. And it's sort of like oversimplify. And sometimes I think it's just ignorance. And sometimes I think it's like, the not even having a desire to understand, you know, yeah, but you know, those are really important differentiations to make, you know.
Traci Thomas 20:54
I think for me, like looking through this book, and thinking about gender, and like thinking about the performance of gender, because that is so much of what drag is, right. It's this performance, and an interpretation and like a reflection of something that the performer is seeing. And then like, you know, making their own version of it, it was really interesting to like, just look at the body language, and like, the ways that, that they were embodying their characters, and like, the person that they were, and I just was thinking, like, if you really spend time probably in the space, there's gotta be so many like little things that you notice about, like, the ways that we, broadly, we sort of general we think about what is gender versus actually what is performance, right like that I perform my femininity in a certain way. And like also that I perform masculinity in a certain way. And like, I think what's cool about drag queens is that they sort of AMP up a lot of that stuff. And like, you know, you see, there's pictures in here with drag queens, who have full beards, and it's like, Oh, that's such an interesting performance, because you're in a gown with a full beard. And like, what's that person saying, and like, I just think all of those little things, it just was really exciting to, for me to like, go back and like think more about what the performance of gender looks like, on a day to day basis versus from a person whose job it is to perform gender when they're in drag.
Aaron Jay Young 22:19
I think it's, this whole experience has helped me on a personal level to, like be more in touch with, like, the broader aspects of who I am, you know, because I look at somebody who is who identifies as, like non binary, for instance, as being i That, to me is a very evolved way of being, you know, because it's, it's, it's identifying with all the parts of yourself, it's identifying with the masculine and feminine, and not having to define yourself as one or the other. You know, it's like, You're everything. And I think we all are actually everything, and we all have masculine energy, and we all have feminine energy. And I think that the people who are able to be the most in touch with all the aspects of themselves are, to me, that's like, the most evolved way to actually be in the world, you know?
Traci Thomas 23:17
Yeah. Have you ever done drag?
Aaron Jay Young 23:20
No, it's so funny. I've never done I mean, I've done like, I guess you could call forms of you know, but it's been like Halloween has been like dressing up. And I've never, I would really love to do like really sort of like classic feminine drag and just see how it would feel. Because I think it'd be very empowering. And then also just visually to see like, what it would actually look like.
Traci Thomas 23:43
Yeah, I would love to see I feel like you could call in some drag queens to like, get your get your whole shit together. They would help you out. I feel like you know, plenty of drag queen.
Aaron Jay Young 23:52
Oh, yeah. I mean, I just need Glen Allen, who is the upside down girl. In the book, he actually teaches drag makeup, like teaches classes. And he's actually asked me in the past, I want to be a model. And our schedules is having a line but I'm, I'm thinking, yeah, one day I want Glenn to, like, put me into because because it'll be like the most amazing drag if he does it. And then I would love to photograph myself and do like some self portraits as whoever this person emerges is.
Traci Thomas 24:26
Oh my god, I love it. Do you have a drag name for yourself picked out?
Aaron Jay Young 24:29
I actually don't over the years I've come up with many like funny kind of things, but I don't necessarily have like one that stuck as the as the one that would seriously be my my Greg persona.
Traci Thomas 24:40
Okay, okay. Wait, I want to ask you how you picked the cover image and also the title queen. Did you know it was going to be clean? Always?
Aaron Jay Young 24:50
No. So that was that was another big decision, which obviously was like, What are we going to call this book and just lots of brainstorming lots of meetings going back and forth and Out of all of the possible titles that I could come up with. Queen just felt like the right one, you know, it was like is this? I mean a question like, is it too straightforward? Is it too simple. But intuitively, it just felt right from the get go. And so I kind of I try to follow that, that sort of, like inner voice when it comes to everything in my life. And so when I felt that, and I know that feeling, I was like, Okay, this is probably what it's going to end up being. But um, obviously, I did, you know, meetings with the publisher, and I think initially, it was like, okay, that might be a little too on the nose. But, but I think it's kind of perfect.
Traci Thomas 25:40
I love it. It's so good. And it looks really good. On the cover of the book. Exactly. Visually, it's awesome table book, you just want like one really strong word.
Aaron Jay Young 25:51
Yeah, it's very, to the point. And yeah, and I do think visually looks really good.
Traci Thomas 25:56
How about the cover image? How did you decide on this particular queen?
Aaron Jay Young 26:00
So um, so on the cover is Bianca Del Rio, she was somebody who I never got the chance to photograph at DragCon. So we were thinking, you know, we want somebody on the cover who is recognizable, you know, she won her season of drag race, but then she, she's gone on to have this amazing career. And, also, she happens to live in Palm Springs. And so and I live part time in Palm Springs as well. So it just sort of worked out that, you know, we were in the pandemic, we were just getting to the point where we could sort of start working again. And so you know, her schedule was all of our schedules were kind of, you know, up in the air. And so it allowed for us all to come together. And that was the one photograph in the book that was not photographed at DragCon. So we ended up shooting that at a studio in Palm Springs.
Traci Thomas 26:51
Is there anything that's not in this book that you wish could have been?
Aaron Jay Young 26:55
I mean, there's always, there's always even more aspects of drag that I feel like it's almost like too much to put into one book. But I mean, I, I feel pretty, I'm pretty happy with with how things turned out. You know, there are some queens that I wish I would have photographed by then by that time to be able to be a part of the book that I've photographed, like since then, because I'm continue. I just have continued with this project every year, like this year, last year, oh, last year, and the year before we were at drag con taking more portraits. This year, we'll be at drag con, with the publisher selling the book on the spot, which I think it'd be really cool. Because, you know, people are oftentimes wanting autographs with these greens. So Oh, yeah, I think it's gonna be this perfect thing where, you know, you can grab one of these books, and then you can take around, you could have your favorite Queens actually sign it if you want.
Traci Thomas 27:48
When is DragCon this year?
Aaron Jay Young 27:52
That's a really good question. I think it's, um-
Traci Thomas 27:55
I can Google it. Let's see. DragCon. This year is July 19th and 20.
Aaron Jay Young 28:01
Wonderful.
Traci Thomas 28:03
So people at home, you still can go if you want to. Okay, I have some questions for you now less about the book, but more about you as a photographer. I have been lucky enough to have you photograph me and make me look like an actual famous person a true true dream. So many people were like, You look amazing. And I was like, Well, I look like this every day. But the pictures are amazing. Because Aaron's amazing because there's other pictures of that night where I don't look as good. And someone told me that I was a thirst trap and my photo. So thank you for making me and almost 40 year old woman a B into B, a thirst trap I appreciate Wow. I want to know how you Well, first of all, how did you get into photography? When did you start taking pictures? And then when were you like, I'm actually going to do this as my job because I feel like those are probably different times in your life.
Aaron Jay Young 28:54
I got into photography, about 15 or 16 years ago now. It's crazy to think it's been that long. But I I was living in Pennsylvania at the time where I grew up, and I was visiting Palm Springs. I was young. You know, I was in my early 20s. I remember coming to this town and thinking, How does anybody live here? It's so slow. There's nothing happening. Like why would somebody want to live in this place? And now it's like my favorite place on the planet.
Traci Thomas 29:23
It's my favorite place like California for sure.
Aaron Jay Young 29:27
Yeah. But I so I came in as visiting a friend of mine who was a photographer, and he was doing a couple of photo shoots while I while I was visiting. And it was the first time I'd ever picked up like an actual professional camera and he was just like, hey, take some take some photos of like, behind the scenes of like me taking photos of my subject. And so I just was like, okay, um, cameras on fully automatic mode. It's beautiful, natural light, like, I'm going to just try to mimic what I see in his work. That's kind of how I thought about it. And then We were like, Oh, I kind of have somewhat of a natural knack for this, like, I kind of have this like little bit of a natural ability, I would say. And so that's kind of what sparked the interest. And then I went back to Pennsylvania. And I just started playing around with my own camera and photographing lots of different things. And I found photographing people to be sort of the most fascinating. And because I also another big passion of mine is like psychology and self development and spirituality. And so I, photographing people kind of encompasses all of those things to me. So I just started focusing mostly on photographing people. And I was like, I don't know how I'm going to ever do this as a successful career. I eventually, then about a year later moved to LA. And I had another career at the time. Luckily, that allowed me to sort of what was that? I was a personal trainer. And then I got my certification in massage therapy. So I was doing all this, like fitness related stuff. And then I, that just allowed me to sort of have the luxury of figuring out this other career over time. And I just kind of never gave up like, I was like, I don't know how exactly, I'm gonna do all of this. But I just, I guess I was passionate enough that I just kept putting one foot in front of the other and just slowly but surely building momentum and figuring things out along the way. And that job at working as a still photographer on Ru Paul's drag race was so early in my career. And so I mean, it was such a beautiful opportunity that came about through massage therapy through going on set of a different show, as a massage therapist, and then meeting the crew. And then just through like, these circumstances, like I got the offer to do that. And you know, so that was another sort of like confirmation to me that I was moving in the right direction. And yeah, it's just kind of gone on from there.
Traci Thomas 32:05
That's so funny. I also have a background I used to teach fitness as well. And I was doing fitness when I started doing this job. And it allowed me the same kind of like, freedom to be able to focus on this outside of doing fitness. I am not a massage therapist, but I was I used to teach spin. Yeah, it's, it's a good job. Fitness is good if you're trying to figure out the rest of your life, right? I mean, a fitness is also good if you're a fitness professional forever, because there are plenty of people who do that, though. Yeah, but like, for me, it was great to be able to be like, Okay, I work this many hours, and I get paid this much money, and then I can figure out the rest of it. around those times. And a lot of fitness is done outside of the regular workday exam. Most people don't exercise at like, 10am Because they're at work. How do you I guess, especially knowing that you have an interest in psychology and stuff? How do you approach your subjects to get them to give you what they want? Or what you want?
Aaron Jay Young 33:04
Yeah, I mean, that's something that I think a lot I've thought a lot about, and continue to think a lot about, I think there's an element of it that is natural, a natural ability to, like, I'm a very sensitive person, I'm very intuitive, I have the ability to very quickly read somebody and read their energy and kind of tap into who they are. And so I use that to sort of see beyond the surface of the person that I'm photographing. Because for me, it's about, it's, I guess, this is a visual medium. But the most powerful photographs of people are when you are capturing their energy coming through the photograph. So it's always been this thing I thought about of like, how, how do I capture this feeling? Coming through a visual medium? I think it also has to do with just being really present with with my subjects is like, I mean, you got to experience that firsthand, like, yeah, at the event. And so at this event, you know, we set up like a portrait studio. So you know, oftentimes, that's like, you know, might have two minutes with somebody. So that's not a lot of time to really connect, it's not a lot of time to get to know someone, so I have to really be like, Okay, who is this person? Like really? Like beyond beyond the physical? And how do I capture them in the most authentic way that I can. So I'm also paying attention into like body language. And I think I might have said this to you, when you when you sat down. I was like, Okay, what if you kind of like, you have these props, but then I want to kind of see what what is natural to you? Because that's a good starting place to just see, okay, what's this person's natural body language and like, how are they moving? And all of those things become like the authenticity that you feel coming through the photograph?
Traci Thomas 34:54
That's so interesting. Yeah. It's so I mean, I hate being photographed in those kinds of situations because It's really hard. I just like I clam up, I don't know what to do, you know, and you were really good about just like you. I mean, I think probably because you could tell that I have a lot of intense high energy, you were very calm with me, which I appreciate it. But I would assume if you had like a very shy person, you would probably, like have a different energy. I'm really outgoing, over the top. So you were like, qulet, Lady stop smiling.
Aaron Jay Young 35:23
Well, I mean, I'm, I've been told that I'm like, I have a very chill energy most of the time. And another big element to this is creating a space where people feel safe to be themselves and really feel seen. And I think that that sort of calm energy that I bring to the experience helps people to realize that this isn't going to be like some big deal where you have to perform. And you have to, you know, because I think we all have, we're all concerned about how we look and how we appear, and to some degree, and now it's like, Okay, God, now now, it's going to be immortalized. And this could be really bad. And so we all have, you know, that that fear going into it. And I'm just trying to convey to people that, like, it's really just about relaxing, and not putting on a show just being exactly who you are. And the more the more chill, we can be like, the better the photographs are going to be. So once people kind of like realize that, then that's generally when the magic starts to happen. That's when people start to just sort of open up and be themselves and do a lot more with their own body language. And, you know, oftentimes people will pose and do things in ways that like I told somebody to pose that way, it would feel very contrived, but because the person is doing it on their own, it's like, it's unique to them, and it feels authentic.
Traci Thomas 36:50
Do you have any pet peeves when you're taking someone's picture, like things that people do where you're like, I am gonna, I'm gonna punch that person in the face. Like they're annoying the shit out of me.
Aaron Jay Young 37:03
I mean, there's, there's always like things that that individual people do that sometimes becomes like a comical thing that you have to continuously remind somebody about, like, sometimes people just naturally without thinking about it, they like, bring their head back, and their chin is way too high. And you have to continually remind me like bringing it down, chin down.
Traci Thomas 37:20
I'm a chin up person. I think I remember that. person. I know. I don't. I don't know why I think because I was a dancer. So like you always like, yeah, and I don't think about the camp like, yeah, when you're on stage, it's like you have to be up at the camera isn't always up. But I I always get told this always. And I can never remember it.
Aaron Jay Young 37:39
I don't know. Yeah, so sometimes just little things like that. Sometimes people are blinkers like hardcore blinkers, and they're constantly and then I mean, I don't get annoyed with the person, it's more just like I get it, I understand that it's just the thing some people have. So then it becomes about sort of, like capturing the moments in between the bliss. Yeah, which can be a little bit of a challenge, the biggest challenge that I find is just, every once in a while, I'll have somebody in front of the camera that is very, very nervous, or very self conscious. And almost, it feels like they, they are so self conscious that they are that the things that they're doing are very pre contrived, kind of missing the authenticity. And that, to me is the hardest thing, because sometimes it'll just take a little bit longer to just sort of like help somebody to relax more into that authentic space. Yeah, you know, but there's, there's definitely been moments where that, that that's taken a little while and I'm sweating. And I'm like, I don't know if it's gonna happen. Right, but Right. Luckily, we always get that we always get to get into that sweet spot.
Traci Thomas 38:49
And what is I guess besides that, or in addition to that, what is the hardest part of your job and what is the easiest part or the part that like you are most excited, enjoy, enjoy the most.
Aaron Jay Young 39:04
The hardest, the most annoying part of my job that consistently annoys me is just, like, constantly transporting gear. I mean, you you got to witness this first amount of gear that's involved in a photoshoot when you're outside of the studio is like daunting, sometimes. I mean, luckily, I oftentimes will have at least one assistant or a team even or whatever. But it's a lot. And also, like, I would say, the hardest part of the hardest part of my job is probably the just like the business part of the job, you know, because it's like if I had in my way, I would just be creating art all day every day and not have to deal with all the other aspects of an actual business. But, like anything, I'm sure you know this if you want to have a successful business you have to deal with.
Traci Thomas 39:56
Yeah, yeah. So what do you love the most? What's the best part of your job?
Aaron Jay Young 40:00
I think the best part is just getting to connect with people and the way that I get to connect with people. I have so many beautiful experiences with clients. Where, you know, somebody comes into the studio and we don't know each other at all. And by the time we they leave, like, I feel like we're friends and and it's awesome to get to get to know them get to hear their stories. Yeah, I've just I've met so many really interesting people getting to do what I do.
Traci Thomas 40:32
I love that. Okay, this is really a me question. You probably are gonna be like, What the fuck, but what sort of snacks and beverages Do you like to have on set when you're doing a shoot? Do you have any? Are there things that you like to munch on? When you're editing or like when you're working on set?
Aaron Jay Young 40:47
I ideally try to keep it healthy ish. Because it's so easy to grab whatever is there. And in general, I tried to be you know, pretty healthy in my So, yeah, so it seems like healthy ish options. I love like fresh fruits are dried fruit is always a great option. I love getting nuts. I love like trail mix. It's a good thing. There's always like a couple of things that might not be the healthiest.
Traci Thomas 41:25
Well, if I come to your studio, I would like you to have some junk food for me. Okay, that's what I like to eat. I want some gummy bears, goldfish chips. It's a really yucky, you know?
Aaron Jay Young 41:41
I feel like you could just do a good Trader Joe's run and find everything that you could possibly ever want.
Traci Thomas 41:48
Okay, Who would be the dream person for you to shoot? Whose picture? Are you just like, dying to take?
Aaron Jay Young 41:58
I don't know, if I have. It's funny, because I've been asked questions like that so many times, I never have an answer. Or you think at this point, I would come up, I would have figured it out.
Traci Thomas 42:08
You can just make one up, yeah.
Aaron Jay Young 42:09
Yeah, I mean, I could just I could like pull it just one person. But I it's more like the kinds of people, okay, like, my favorite kinds of people to photograph are one either the people who have been through a lot in their life, also in that realm, like people who have transformed themselves through the hardships they've experienced in their lives. And then also, I love photographing people who are just doing really amazing things in the world, you know, so that, I mean, some of the favorite work I've ever done this with, like the Anti Recidivism Coalition in Los Angeles. And, you know, they're it's such an incredible organization that is helping people who are formerly incarcerated to re acclimate into the world. And so the project I did, I got to photograph formerly incarcerated people with their families, like mothers and fathers and their children and their families. And, I mean, work like that. I mean, I don't know if there's anybody else on the planet who would be more interesting than that, or more like anything than that, because I just think that that's such a, it's such an important type of project to have and type of, you know, also, this is such a long winded answer, but it's great. Like with the drag community, or the queer community, or formerly incarcerated people, I'm always wanting to photograph my subjects in a way that captures their dignity and their humanity. That is the most important work to me, because I hope that in photographing people in the way that I photograph them, that it will challenge those prejudices that people have, and, and force people to see these other human beings as equal humans, you know. And so I hope that I hope that happens with the book, I hope that happens with you know, anytime that I photograph, anybody.
Traci Thomas 44:10
I think that does happen with the book because I think by including the people on the outsides of the of the backdrop, like the fans, and the people walking by and stuff, you get to see the way that they're looking at the drag queens, and it shows like, it shows a different response to a group of people that we have been told are, you know, quote, unquote, sick or gross or like pet of like, all the things? Yeah, all the hateful things people say about drag queens, and then people who don't understand the difference also about trans people and like, all of that stuff, you get to see in these pictures where people are so excited and like so I'm like, in such admiration of these drag queens, that I felt that when I was looking at it, I was like, I'm so glad I get to see these people's faces because of these people. These drag queens means so much to the spectator. And these fans, and we're getting to see not only the drag queen, like looking fantastic, but also the people having these emotional reactions. So I really do think that is here. Yeah, in the book for sure.
Aaron Jay Young 45:11
There's so much joy in the draft. And that's why it's, it's it's comical, like the way that the drag man has been targeted, yes, but it's really because, you know, drag his political drag challenges all of us to, like what we were talking about earlier to, to see the absurdity in like, society and like, all of the things that we're taught that are just the way things are and the way things always have been. And it's like, a lot of stuff that we're taught is literally just somebody made it up, decided that that's the way it's gonna be, it became adopted as the law of the land. And it's like, most of his bullshit, like most of it is not really the way that things are or the way that things have to be a drag queens really, like, throw that in your face. They're like, you know, they challenge that. And, I mean, I think that's why it's so important that they exist, you know?
Traci Thomas 46:07
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, I have just two more questions for you. One is who are the photographer's that you look to either as inspiration, or as people that you think are like, that you admire like you want to be like, or just photographers that do totally different stuff that is just like exciting and thrilling to you. Could you give us like a few?
Aaron Jay Young 46:31
Yeah, I mean, there's there's so many like I I'm and the thing is, you're constantly discovering photographers, like on a weekly basis, especially for like social media that person is incredible. I love when people are creating stuff that is like so different from my personal style, that I just find it fascinating and really cool. I mean, I really love all the sort of great classic portrait photographers like Richard Avedon. Any Liebowitz all of those classic portrait photographers who had that ability or have that ability, like Mark Seliger, to capture people in that way, where they bring that deep energy and connection coming through the photograph, and then do it visually in a beautiful, stunning way. And then there's like, photographers, like there's a photographer Reuven fundador, who, just beautiful, dramatic portrait work. That's stunning. There is a photographer around my age. His name's Ryan Pflueger, who is a queer photographer who does a lot of like editorial, celebrity work, and then also a lot of work in the centered around queer community.
Traci Thomas 47:56
And I'm trying to think that's good. That's gonna have to do more. That's great. Okay, last one, if you could have one person dead or alive, read Queen, who do you want it to be?
Aaron Jay Young 48:07
You know, I would love to have Jesus. I was raised, I was raised in a very religious household. That, in many ways, you know, created its own trauma for me personally. And that's not to say anything bad about religion in general, I just it just, you know, there were certain things for me personally, that never resonated, and I've had to, like, undo some of the things I was taught whatever. But um, because of that, because I think that Jesus person has been very misconstrued. And very, you know, so many people have gotten it wrong. I think that I think it would be really interesting to get Jesus's take on. I love that. Because I think I think that it would surprise a lot of people.
Traci Thomas 48:57
I love it. I think you're the first person to ever say Jesus and answer to that question. And I've been doing this for over six years. So I'm really excited that you are my first Jesus. All right, everybody. This has been a conversation with Aaron Jiang, the author, photographer behind the book queen, we obviously will link to everything in the show notes that we talked about today, including the book that you should definitely get it is so gorgeous. And also, they can go to your website or whatever if they want you to take their picture, right? You accept clients.
Aaron Jay Young 49:29
Yeah. Always accepting, always accepting clients. Yeah, if you if you're interested in potentially booking a photo shoot, I actually have a website designated just to that, which is Aaron J. Young studio.
Traci Thomas 49:43
And we'll link to that in the show notes to everything in the show notes so people can find it easily. But Aaron, thank you so much for being here. This was awesome.
Aaron Jay Young 49:51
Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun.
Traci Thomas 49:54
And everyone else we will see you in the stacks.
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