Ep. 327 Lots of Big Nights in Our Future with Katherine Lewin

Written By Megan Caballero
Ep. 327 Lots of Big Nights in Our Future with Katherine Lewin.jpg

We are joined by Katherine Lewin, founder of the hosting shop Big Night in NYC, to discuss her new cookbook Big Night: Dinners, Parties & Dinner Parties. Katherine explains how she makes hosting feel easy and welcoming and shares the keys to having a successful Big Night. We also learn about her development process and how she decided on which recipes to include in the book.

The Stacks Book Club pick for July is Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler. We will discuss the book on July 31st with Emily Raboteau.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

To support The Stacks and find out more from this week’s sponsors, click here.

Connect with Katherine: Instagram | Website | Big Night IG
Connect with The Stacks: Instagram | Twitter | Shop | Patreon | Goodreads | Substack | Subscribe

To contribute to The Stacks, join The Stacks Pack, and get exclusive perks, check out our Patreon page. If you prefer to support the show with a one time contribution go to paypal.me/thestackspod.

The Stacks participates in affiliate programs. We receive a small commission when products are purchased through links on this website.

TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Traci Thomas 0:08

Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and I'm so happy today to welcome one of my friends Katherine Lewin to the podcast. Katherine is the author of the brand new cookbook, Big Night: Dinners, Parties and Dinner Parties. The book spawned from Katherine's Big Night, which she started as a dinner party store then turned it into a huge resource for everything needed to make gatherings more special. The book has recipes. Obviously, it is a cookbook, but it also has tips, tricks and guidance on every aspect of hosting. It's a perfect resource for folks who both love hosting and those who are a little apprehensive about welcoming people into their homes. Katherine and I talk about hosting anxiety, the financial burdens of hosting and also how to have a really big night. Don't forget our July book club selection is Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler, which we will be discussing with Emily Raboteau when she returns on July 31st. Everything we talked about on each episode of The Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. Okay, now it's time for my conversation with Katherine.

All right, everybody. I'm absolutely thrilled I get to have a friend on the show today, my dear friend, Katherine Lewin, who is the owner of two hosting shops called Big Night and is now officially a cookbook author. The book is also called Big Night. Katherine is the absolute best. She helps me when I'm trying to do Thanksgiving or eat anywhere in the world. I go to her she is my encyclopedia of all things, food relations, and dinner parties. So Katherine, welcome to The Stacks.

Katherine Lewin 3:05

Wow, I could not be more excited to be here.

Traci Thomas 3:08

I'm so excited. I guess we should tell people we met in the weirdest of ways. When I used to teach spin Katherine would come. She lives in New York, but she would come to LA and take my class where she's from. And one day I saw her and she had on like an Infatuation hat, I think like a baseball cap and I was like, oh my god, I love The Infatuation. And she was like, Oh, I'm about to flex on this idiot. And she's like, oh, yeah, I'm like the editor of the like foods, blah, blah, blah. at The Infatuation. And I was like, oh, we should be friends.

Katherine Lewin 3:39

And it was the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Traci Thomas 3:41

Yeah, it was. Here we are.

Katherine Lewin 3:43

How many years later? like eight years later?

Traci Thomas 3:45

Yeah, we think somewhere between seven and eight years. We're not sure we lost track. But Katherine, you're one of those people. I feel like that collects- you collect people.

Katherine Lewin 3:53

Oh, wow. That's so kind. I feel like I don't just collect people, I find people that I want to surround myself with. And then I say, you know, will you be my friend? And I feel like that's what happened with us.

Traci Thomas 4:11

Yeah. I feel like we're similar in that way. There's actually so many times in reading the book, I was like, we've never talked about this, but I do that. Or like, oh, I love this thing. I can't believe it's in here. We'll get to that. But before we do, in about 30 seconds or so will you just tell people generally what the book is about?

Katherine Lewin 4:28

I would love to. So Big Night is really all about bringing to life what I have created with big night the stores. And if you haven't been to the stores then you should know it is a one-stop shop for everything you need for hosting and more importantly than anything you might purchase in the store. It's really about being a place where you can walk in and feel hopefully inspired to host get some ideas feel empowered. Remember that you don't have to cook a three course elaborate meal. And maybe all you need is a couple of cheeses to go with some takeout pizza and wine. And so I really wrote this book to not just be a cookbook, but really be a guide to like, how do you actually host at home? How do I make this actually enjoyable for myself? Easy, fun and delicious for me and all of my friends?

Traci Thomas 5:27

Yeah, I do love that. Because the book, what's fun about the book is like, there's definitely sections where you're like, just buy some hummus and just zhoosh it up. Here, just, here's the best potato chips. These are the regular ones, but like, these are the fancy ones. And like it's very welcoming and low stress for people who are hosting. And I guess I'm curious sort of like, why is the ease of hosting is so important to you.

Katherine Lewin 5:56

Because hosting as a word and a term has often been tied up in all of this, I think anxiety and intimidation around what it means to quote unquote, hosted in our party. And I think so much of big night is trying to disentangle the word hosting from this idea of like, entertaining, setting a really fancy table with china, cooking things that scare you to cook and really help people understand that hosting can truly be as simple as I want to have my friends over. I want to have something delicious on the table. And guess what, I don't even have to be the one who made it. All I have to do is create a space that feels like I want them over and like I have a plan for how we are going to enjoy this night.

Traci Thomas 6:47

Okay, I love a plan. I personally love hosting, I don't have any hosting anxiety. I just love it. I grew up in a house where my parents always had people over, we always did Thanksgiving, we always did Christmas, they always had friends in and out like people would pop by so like to me, I feel like I really understand that like hosting can be anything and often is in our house especially. But I'm curious on on page 11, you make this distinction between entertaining and experiencing. And I'd love for you to sort of tell people about how you're thinking about those words, because I think that's sort of like the center of what you're talking about, about with the whole idea of like making hosting less stress.

Katherine Lewin 7:31

Totally. So I draw this distinction between entertaining and experiencing. Because I think that people think of hosting as entertaining. Like, I am going to open the door for you and I will jazz hands my way through a nightmare. I've got I've got this appetizer coming out of the oven. And okay, everybody, like let's sit down and of course out these three courses for you. And I'm gonna pour this really fancy wine and like, tell you all about the wine and like really, like put on a show. And I think that that's sort of like the traditional definition of hosting and entertaining when they get kind of grouped together. And what I have kind of realized is entertaining is something you do for someone, you know, like when you go see a show, like you're paying for people to entertain you. Whereas I think that for me, hosting is really about creating an experience that you share with anybody that you open the door to. And an experience is something you do together with people and you're not doing it to someone, right? No, you're not. You're it's really about creating a space where you can experience a really special night with your friends.

Traci Thomas 8:45

Yeah. I don't know if we've ever talked about this. But have you read that Priya Parker book The Art of Gathering?

Katherine Lewin 8:51

Of course I have. I think we've talked about we talked about it because you I think the last time that you and I chatted on your podcast, you told me about the book. And I think I hadn't either read some of it or you read an excerpt. And I basically went out and bought it. And it's such an incredible book, and she has so many really smart ideas about why and how we gather.

Traci Thomas 9:13

Yeah, and I feel like I mean, it's like one of the most important books probably of my life, I feel like it's like definitely a book of my life. And I think like one of the things that you both sort of get at is like, it doesn't matter what you do, but it matters that you think about what you're doing and like how you're gonna do it and like, as long as your guests or whoever's gathering, you know, for whatever reason, feel like they're taken care of like that's really the job of the host is like to make sure people feel safe and comfortable to like experience as opposed to the job of the host being like to set the table like yes, you can set the table. Yeah, like a host also cannot set the table.

Katherine Lewin 9:50

Yeah, and by the way, the plan can be like, Hey, everybody, take your shoes off. Pizza will be here in 20 minutes. In the meantime, I have two different wines that I'm pouring. One is white, one is red. Which one would you like? Also, like, do you want to help me, you know, chop these veggies for this salad, because we're going to enjoy that beforehand. Like that is a plan. And it sounds so simple and like not that exciting. But I think that you forget the privilege that you feel walking into someone else's house, out of your own space, where they have come up with how you're spending time together, even if that is just like, you know, quote, unquote, a really simple takeout pizza night, it's still someone thinking like, Okay, I am going to put together a little itinerary for this evening, and I'm gonna share that with people. And I just think we take for granted that like that act in itself is an act of service and one that you feel really special to be included in.

Traci Thomas 10:45

Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about money, because I think some people also feel stressed about hosting, because it can be really expensive, right? Or it can feel expensive, like you have to have wine and you have to have food and you have to have like plates, and you have to have maybe a tablecloth, or like all of these things. And I want to know like what you advise for people who may be like, that's just not affordable, like what are ways that people can still host and still create these evenings with the people that they love or days or whatever, and still feel like it's not a burden on them financially. Because I think like being able to host sometimes is really a huge privilege, right? You have to have a space and a place and the right thing. So how do you think about sort of making it more accessible?

Katherine Lewin 11:28

Totally, I think you start with thinking about what is the one, Or what are the two things that I can offer this group at this time? Is it my space? Is it my space and this dish that I really want to cook? And I have I feel like I can you know, budget for? Or is it my space and I want to share this one bottle of wine? Like what are the things that you really want to bring to the group. And then I think I talked about this in the book. But asking friends for help. Should be it, we should all be doing it more when it comes to hosting. And I don't just mean like, bring whatever you want. It's more like, Hey, I'm not going to have a vegetable, I'm not going to have a salad. I haven't had time to get ice, and I only have a bottle of wine. Does anyone have something that they're drinking right now at home that they're really into it, they'd want to bring? Does anyone have like some romaine or some lettuce or some arugula sitting in the fridge they might want to bring over I was just at a friend's house for dinner last night. And it was my friends. Their parents were in town and there were four of us. And the friends said, we've got the pasta, we do not have any alcohol in the house, we do not have any vegetables in the house. We don't have any sweets, can you guys help. And it's I guess it's a potluck and that everyone brings things but it's actually more like the friend saying what I have is my space and my family to share. And I'm gonna make this mean, and how can all of you contribute to make the rest of the night happen? And it feels really organic. And it feels like community building in a way, you know, like all coming around together for this one plan. So I think that when it comes to, you know, trying to keep things more affordable, the answer is like, don't be afraid or ashamed or embarrassed to say, Hey, friends, I have this vision. Can you help me bring it to life?

Traci Thomas 13:16

Yeah. And I think like, even like, on top of that, I think I know so many people who listen to the show whenever I have like a person who has a cookbook on because I love cookbooks. But I know many of you at home listening are like rolling your eyes, I'm forcing you another cookbook down your throat. But the nice thing about hosting is if you do have space, you don't even actually have to have food. Like you can get food. Like you're saying, like from other people's like you don't have to cook you don't have to turn your stove on. You don't have to do anything. Like if you've got a microwave, you can reheat things. Like it's just I feel like what's different about hosting versus like cooking and like a hosting is sort of choose your own adventure. It's whatever you want it to be. Yeah. Yeah, really good post entire dinner party without ever turning on an appliance if you so choose.

Katherine Lewin 14:02

And guess what, like people will still be delighted by that. Because you will plan to the thing, right?

Traci Thomas 14:08

Like you have like snack boards and you're like cheese boards in here. You talk about like making bars like if there's a if there is an opportunity to make something into a bar, whether it's like a Bloody Mary bar, or a big potato bar or my bread or sorry, a hot dog bar. Exactly. That was a thing that we never talked about. But do you know that I'm like a die hard hotdog person? We're in the middle of hot dog season.

Katherine Lewin 14:33

Okay, well here in New York, I would say we're on the cusp of it.

Traci Thomas 14:36

But baseball season demarcates it.

Katherine Lewin 14:38

Okay, okay, that's fair. That's fair. That's fair. What's your hot dog brand of choice?

Traci Thomas 14:43

I don't have a brand of choice. I like the all beef. Okay, and I like a true person who eats like a seven year old only like ketchup on my hot dogs.

Katherine Lewin 14:56

Oh my god. Same.

Traci Thomas 14:58

Oh, yay. And I went to show Chicago that yelled at me. Apparently you can't put ketchup on a hot dog in Chicago.

Katherine Lewin 15:03

No, it's apparently very sacrilegious among some hot dog eating cohorts.

Traci Thomas 15:08

Apparently in Chicago, you put like an entire salad on there with pickle and a tomato and an onion.

Katherine Lewin 15:15

They treat it like a burger.

Traci Thomas 15:16

Yeah, no, it's no different. Yeah, but then you got a chili cheese hotdog. And I will do that. I won't put ketchup on that. But I do like that.

Katherine Lewin 15:26

Yeah that's a perfect example of a food like that we might think of as like, Oh, that's a budget meal for me, you know, but all you need to do to make a hot dog night super festive is like one tell people you're hosting a hot dog night and I guarantee people are gonna like, light up. And then it's like, you know, talk about like, a little bar. So a bar for them to you know, furnish their hot dogs. So there's ketchup, there's maybe two kinds of mustard. There's something like crunchy salty for them to put on top. And suddenly, like everyone's gathered around the condiment bar, dressing their hotdogs and like becoming friends over a food that like you might think of as something you eat at the baseball game, or like when you have nothing else in your fridge, but actually can be the most fun dinner party you will attend that year.

Traci Thomas 16:10

Yeah, I love it. I literally, so you can see people can't see it at home. Okay, I want to talk about how the book actually came to be. I know that you I know the sort of backstory of Big Night the stores, I know that you were working at The Infatuation. And you like saw this space. And you were like, I could open a store here. And then you did, which is like truly, like insane people behavior. But also like, Of course you did. But I wouldn't know how the book came to be. Was this always on your bucket list for Big Night? Or did it happen to you out of the blue?

Katherine Lewin 17:15

I wish I could say that this was like part of my grand plan. But it was not. I opened the store in August of 2021. And in I think February, the following year, maybe maybe March The following year, I got a cold email from an editor who said hi, I don't know if you know who I am. But I know you are. And your shop has a book. And let me like, you know, let's meet in person. And I'll tell you why. I think that is the case. And you can tell me if that aligns with what you might think, you know, your shops book would look like. And that is really what started the conversation. I mean, I will say that because my background is in editorial. Of course, there's so much about the store that I'm thinking through that lens of like, how do I how do I share the stories within the store? How do we share the stories of the vendors and small businesses that we carry that was sort of like the first storytelling piece of the store to me and something that like, was so important when we opened like I was so such a control freak about signage, because in a store. Signage is like the only place you have to tell the stories of what's on the shelf. And because my store has so many products and so many different brands from all around the country and even the world. I really like relied on signage sounds like such a mundane thing. But like signage, it's like the most important thing in a store when you're trying to tell people like hey, don't just like buy this product, but like, let me tell you about it. It's actually like this amazing maker that you should know that anyway, in terms of, you know, editorial, I'm always I've been thinking about like, how do I how do I share more about what's happening within these four walls of the store? And so when when my editor reached out to me, I mean, I was shocked by the cold email. And I was shocked by you know, I don't know how often do you get a cold email from the editor saying like, I think we should make a book. But what she was saying about like, there's a story here like I very much related to that. And I was really excited to see if the story that she had in mind for the book might not jive with mine. And and that was really the beginning.

Traci Thomas 19:39

For people who are listening to Katherine talk about cold emails, you might be like, didn't we talk about cold emails on this podcast before? And we did and it was with Stacey Mei Fong who wrote the book 50 Pies 50 states and Stacey famously told the story of how she cold emailed someone to get a job and that person is actually Katherine. So Katherine found her store manager and friend Stacey, and apparently her editor from a cold email. So you attract cold emails.

Katherine Lewin 20:09

I attract cold emails, and I also send cold emails like truly, I, I love to send a cold email into the world and just just wonder to myself like is, is this person going to receive it? And like, what are they going to think and like, and likewise, like, every single email that we get through the big night channels, like I read every single thing that comes in, because you just never know who you're gonna meet through a cold email.

Traci Thomas 20:31

I love it. I also send cold emails and I also get a lot, a lot of cold emails. And I do read that but I rarely respond. But I think that's that's valid. I get a lot, a lot though, to be fair to me. But I just love that you're a cold email- Queen of cold emails. So then I saw you a little bit after you sort of got the book rolling. And you were like, guess what? And I was like, what? And you're like, This is a secret. But I'm writing a book. And I was like, Oh, my God, you have to come on the podcast. But now fast forward to here's the book. What was the hardest part of writing it? What came easily? How did you feel about writing? Like sort of the descriptive stuff versus like the recipe stuff? How did those things compare for you?

Katherine Lewin 21:18

Yeah, I mean, now that I'm on the other side of it, wow, the process of making a cookbook is wild. And I will never look at any other cookbook the same way. Because now I know how many blood sweat and tears have been into it. The hardest part about writing the book was, quite frankly, that it was not my only job or anywhere close to there and feeling a lot of pressure to make something that had real value. And I didn't want to make a cookbook just to make a cookbook because someone believed in me to write a cookbook, I wanted to make a cookbook that I actually felt would add value to people's lives at home, and actually really helped them host. And so I had that sort of like standard for myself, right. But the way that the timing worked out as the the original deadline for my manuscript was actually two weeks after I opened my second location. So I was like, trying to write a book while also trying to open a store in New York City. And luckily, thank you to my editor, we pushed out the deadline a little bit like, I think eight weeks later, but I think running the businesses and also writing the book was yeah, that was a real challenge, and one that I am privileged to be able to have had to work through. But it couldn't just be my all it had to be balanced with sort of like the day to day ways of running a business. So that was that was tricky. But once I shut myself like in a closet, essentially, and sat down and started writing, it was so much fun, because that was my whole my whole prayer life was writing and editing. And it honestly was almost like cathartic to be able to put on the page, all these ideas that I had had about the store, but could never have communicated through the store. Like right people come to a store to shop not to hear like some lady like waxing poetic, you know. Um, so I think like once I got into it, and once I kind of wrap my head around, like what I really what the structure was, and what kind of stories I was telling and how I wanted to help people. It, it was, it was great. And then as for the recipes, I am so lucky because I worked with a recipe developer, her name is Rebecca. And essentially, that process was one of the most joyful things I've ever done. Because I was able to say to Rebecca like, okay, here are at recipe ideas, I have ideas for dishes ideas for what I want to put in each season. And you know, the different like levels of ease and difficulty of each of these recipes that I have, in my mind really trying to balance like, how can I make sure that there are recipes for every kind of host and cook people that like have no idea what they're doing? And people who are like, Oh, I host every week, like give me something I haven't seen before. And so Rebecca really helped me actually hone in on the recipe development itself, which I'm sure you know, is like that's a whole yeah, there's a whole job and one that is, you know, really time intensive and really detail oriented. And it makes me feel so good that every single recipe in this book has like really been tested and vetted by both of us.

Traci Thomas 24:36

I love that. Will you tell us a little bit about the organization of the book? And how because I have questions sort of about how you were thinking like, I guess just tell us how you were thinking about organizing the book, and how you sort of decided what things would maybe be like solos versus like part of a big night.

Katherine Lewin 24:54

Yes, I came into this book knowing that I wanted it to be seasonal and not just because like, we eat seasonally like because anything to do really more like practically speaking, when it's February and like there's no good produce, what are some dishes that you can serve to a group that is not like pasta lasagna or a stew like I really wanted? I want people to be able to flip to the season and be like, What the heck do I make right now I have zero inspiration and like, nothing sounds exciting to eat, like, let me get inspired. So I knew it was going to be seasonal for that reason. And then I had this idea of giving people not just single dishes, but groupings of dishes, again, not for them to take an entire menu all at once. But to say like, Oh, interesting, like, we have a chicken here paired with this side. And this dessert, what can that tell me about sort of like how I might pair dishes in the future in my own, you know, kitchen. So across the seasons, across all four seasons, there are 12 Bigger nights. And these are like my centerfold spread, literally like you open the page. And suddenly, like you're looking at a full table full of food, and then you flip the page, and you're given the menu of everything that you see on that table. And that happens 12 times throughout the book. And each bigger night has somewhere between four and six recipes. And that the menu is like your drink your apps, your mains, your sides, your desserts. And then beyond the bigger night sort of like in between all of those are more as you say, a standalone recipes, which are kind of like I think of those as just like Staples throughout the seasons. And those can also be plugged in or swapped in for anything you might see in a bigger night. So the whole book is really meant to be modular, but also like, I want people to see these dishes and already start creating their own menus from all the different options and see how different things can be paired together.

Traci Thomas 26:58

Yeah, I love it. That's how my brain was working. I was like, Okay, well, I'm definitely not making my tomato salad because I hate tomatoes. But I was like I could do other things here are like, exactly like, there's also like a lot of places where you mentioned something and then you like you don't link to because it's a cookbook, but you you reference on the page, like it's like, okay, you could do a whole night where you just do like, a board with vegetables and breads and dips. And you're like, here's some dips and like from here, and from here, like this kind of vegetable and this kind of like one leafy green one hard crunchy one already saying. And so some of those things are like in the book, there's recipes for some of those things. And other of those things like carrot sticks, or just like carrot sticks, right? Like I don't know, but I love that there's like a lot of the recipes in the book, you also guide us to do more than once like, the recipe might be with the hotdog bar. But you're also like, you could just throw this on a plate with this other thing. And it'll be great. Or like this potato salad goes with like seven different things.

Katherine Lewin 27:57

Yeah, so almost every single dish has a pair with recommendation. And so even if it's not part of a bigger night, I've made it so that if you're reading a recipe and you're like this sounds yummy, like but what else you can look down to the corner of the page and see just some ideas for how to pair it. And then I also love any recipe that can go like, can be two in one. So like a lot of most of the dips can be thinned out with a dressings and vice versa. Just trying to make this as versatile and functional and useful as possible.

Traci Thomas 28:28

I love it. I made the charred onion dip. I'm really good, really good. But I already was like, I'm gonna make BLTs this week and use that as instead of plain mayo. Isn't that good?

Katherine Lewin 28:42

I'm really excited about it. And that's the kind of thing that I'm obsessed with is like, Okay, you put all this effort into making a dip. And like, sure the dip is great. But then like, how can you nextover the dip? Like, what's the next version of that?

Traci Thomas 28:52

Right. Especially if you're hosting and you've made all this and it doesn't all get eaten, it's not like sitting out for a long time or, you know, you made like, I know that the recipe was too much, because it was just a me, my brother, my sister in law, my husband, and it's like a big thing. And I was like, great. I'm just gonna keep half of it in the fridge. And this week, I will make my BLTs but I bet you could also probably put it on like a like a country loaf type bread with just some locks on top and perfect cucumbers. I'm really excited about it.

Katherine Lewin 29:19

That's the other thing about this book is that almost every single recipe is already scaled to serve six or more. Yes. And I thought a lot about like should some of them be for fewer groups of people and I I ultimately landed on the six or more because it's really annoying and hard when you see a recipe on the internet and it serves like two or four and you're like, can I just double this? Can I scale it? I wanted to do that work for everybody. But then also like leftovers are the gift that you give yourself when you're hosting. Like if you have extra great like do something even more fun and fancy with the next night when it's just you eating it.

Traci Thomas 29:54

I love that. Okay, rules for hosting. I love a rule. First of all, well, we'll talk about rules. First thing to them, I have an idea for you and your store and you can credit me or not, I don't care. But next time I'm in the store, I better see it. Great. You have some rules for hosting in the book that you've written on, I think there's 13 of them, which I also loved that it was 13. Because that is like an unlucky number, but it's one of my personal faves. What are the things that you think you must do to ensure a quality big night? This could be logistical? This could be philosophical, this doesn't even have to be one of your 13 rules. But just like some of the things that you're thinking about when you're like, if you want to have a good night, you must do these things.

Katherine Lewin 30:50

All right, I think if you actually want to enjoy your own night, when you're hosting, the fact of the matter is you have to do prep work in advance. That's like, I know, that seems obvious, but like, I think a lot of times, I have run into the mistake of like, well, I'm gonna make this pasta and like, you know, it cooks. It's gonna cook right before we sit down. So like, I'm just gonna be like cooking the pasta while people are around. And like, it sounds great in theory, but then it's actually hellish, because you're having to monitor your pasta, while people are like, Oh, what's to drink? Can I just grab one of these bottles of wine, like, Can I get some water like you're you're hosting while you're cooking while you're talking. And just the less that you can be doing all that multitasking, the better. Like, it will make you so much calmer. And it will allow you to actually like talk to your guests, which is the reason that you have people over so as much as you can possibly do in advance. Your you will thank yourself and your guests will be like, Wow, she's so relaxed as she's like, you know, just casually sauteeing these things, because in your mind, you're like this is all I have to do is the soft Tang is the last step and like I'm good to go. And so that's also why in the book, I've tried to cue like the parts of each recipe that can be made in advance before anybody gets in the door. So that's, I think, probably my number one. And then I think my philosophy around like why people can be hosting more. I think we don't have people over enough. And that's because we feel like oh god, the house is not clean. And I'm not I haven't had time to cook this whole thing. And, you know, a lot of excuses can pile up. And I think for me, anything can be judged, is like the number one like, like okay, you even have time to buy a dip and you don't have any appetizers on the table. Great. Like buy some certified hummus, put it in a cute bowl, drizzle a little olive oil for it on top. And like suddenly you have like a perfectly lovely snack for people to have when they walk in and like great. You didn't have time to cook. Okay, what do you feel like eating? Can you call one or all parts of that meal in from a restaurant? Or can you buy a rotisserie chicken from the store and like judge that up a little bit like maybe you just make like a super quick Caesar salad on the side of rotisserie chicken like, do whatever you can do to make this easy on yourself and you'll want to host more and when you host it will be more enjoyable.

Traci Thomas 33:11

Yeah, you know one of my go to you have it in the book in a different way. But one of my go to last minute hosting things is we've done like a panini bar. And you have like the little panini press a friend of mine, we made her bring the panini press over because I don't own one that and then we just got some bread, some butter, some cheeses, some bacon because bacon you can just throw in the oven real easy on the sheet like It's like such an easy hosting thing. And that's like a good week night one and very little cleanup. Very little prep work. And yes, who doesn't fucking love like a grilled cheese?

Katherine Lewin 33:45

No, literally no one. I have a BLT night and the book and it's the same thing. It's like all you do is like toast up some bread. Have your bacon in the oven cooking, washed some lettuce leaves, put out some mayo, cut some tomato and you have like a whole bar for people to just like go up to Insert themselves.

Traci Thomas 34:02

And it's like such a crowd pleaser like what is that are like beef wellington, which obviously it's not in your book. I'm like, but nobody even wants that even after all that hard work.

Katherine Lewin 34:12

It's like who was the who was that Beef Wellington for? Was it for you and like proving to yourself that you can cook a complicated dish or is it like for your guests because you think that like they need to feel like they had some like special dining experience like the beef Wellington is for no one.

Traci Thomas 34:28

For no one. Yeah, I'm of the mind that if i i Sometimes will do like fancier recipes when I have people coming over for hosting because I just want to experiment and I'm trying a new thing. I'm really toy. Sometimes I'm just like, come over we'll have paninis like, yeah, and everyone will be happy.

Katherine Lewin 34:46

And that's actually like that's the no fail answer is like the easier and simpler it is, the more you just know it's going to be a hit.

Traci Thomas 34:54

That's so true. Okay, here's my idea for you. I'm pitching you. Great you have on page 22 your rules for hosting You need to get that printed up on a thing and you have to hang it in the store. It's brilliant. It's gorgeous. imparts your philosophy. Oh my god to your idea. Get like a nice big long like cloth one you know where it's like hanging on the wood, like dowels. Come on.

Katherine Lewin 35:16

Okay, well you send me a link to which dowels you're talking about? Find me something like Pinterest.

Traci Thomas 35:23

Like a scroll.

Katherine Lewin 35:24

Oh my god. Oh, a scroll. Wow, we can get a scroll.

Traci Thomas 35:27

What if you had a scroll, and you had like a giant oversized like, thumbtack kind of thing. Up on the wall. Yeah, just 13 rules for hosting. Yeah. And then you could impart all of your wisdom on your customers, because you were saying that's hard to do. But it would still be cute and be like, Big Night vibes.

Katherine Lewin 35:45

I love that idea. And I will be doing it. And we'll have your little credit.

Traci Thomas 35:51

That's perfect. Thank you, thank you. I just thought it'd be fun. My one of my favorite things to talk about in the book and one of your rules is an arrival window. I love this. Because people are late. People do not respect my timelines ever. But if you tell them, you can come anytime after this, and we're gonna eat at this, then they know. And if they're late, it's their fault, not mine. And I don't feel stressed.

Katherine Lewin 36:20

100%. And I think there's some psychology to people being more likely to be on time. If they they get a choice. Here's the window, you can arrive whenever you want with window and there's something like, I don't know. I'm speaking as a chronically late person. But if I know when the earliest arrival time is, and then I know the latest time I'm like, Oh, I don't I do not want to be the person that walks in at the very like after the end of the window. Yeah. And that will be embarrassing for me. So all I have to do is make sure I get there before the end of the window. I think also, it's nice for you to queue for yourself like okay, if I say to people, come anytime after six. We're going to eat dinner at 730. Then I'm also queuing to myself like okay, so six to 730 is going to be like we're mixing, we're mingling, we're sipping, we're snacking. And it just also helps me orient my night of like when I can expect people will all be in the door and ready to sit down.

Traci Thomas 37:15

Yeah, I love it. I love it. I feel like I do it inherently for like big, big nights like Thanksgiving, we already did Thanksgiving, it's like come the game starts at two. So come anytime after two, but we're not gonna be till five or whatever. And that feels really obvious. But I don't always think to do that. At other times, sometimes because I'm just like, ill prepared. I'm like, I don't believe it's like a weeknight hosting I'm I have no idea what time we're gonna eat like, but I do love the idea of an arrival window. And then the other thing that is a must for me that I think we've talked about around Thanksgiving, but not just any night, but I do it for everything is the hosting timeline. Talk about it, because we love it for different reasons, which is funny, you love it.

Katherine Lewin 37:54

Because it's so funny that we both love this thing. And we couldn't be more on opposite ends of the spectrum. So I've said I'm chronically late. Another way of putting it is like, I will make up a story in my head of how many things I can pack in to like a one hour period. And it's actually like, magical thinking. It's not real. I don't I don't know, In what world I think I'm doing these 15 things in an hour, but like I have a problem. So for me, like, once I've decided what the big night is what I'm cooking, how many people are coming over. The next thing I do is I physically write out a hosting timeline that the first thing I write down is what time must we be eating by so I start I started at the end, I started at the end and then I back into the rest okay, like I am going to serve this meal at eight o'clock 8pm On this day. Let's say it's 8pm on a Friday, I will actually start with the 8pm and then say what needs to happen before everything that needs to happen before we get to that APM period starting with like two days before like when am I picking up the chicken or the meat? When am I washing the vegetables? What am I showering before this event because honestly Traci showers key put right down when you're going to shower or you'll end up like me literally I am infamous for showering when people are walking in the door because I have not properly and I'm also like a shower procrastinator like I'll do it later I'll do it. And then I'm and then my hair's wet. Like I'm constantly having wet hair. So anyway, I think like creating a timeline that involves all the tasks needed to like actually get the food on the table logistically but also for yourself like I will put when I'm like running errands, the day that I'm hosting when I'm showering if I need to, like you know, call a family member like I will literally plan out my day integrating all of the parts of the big night that are also happening. And this is just how I get myself from not being ready for a dinner party to being ready for dinner party and having like a guide that I can reference like okay, it's 330 like have I checked off everything that was supposed to I checked off before this point. And then what's my next step? And my next step is my next step. I just think, if you leave it up to sort of like, well, I'll just like get all the things done, at least for me, that leads to stress. And it leads to me not having time to, like, make an entire dish. And me not serving my guests until 10pm.

Traci Thomas 40:19

And also, for me, it late leads to forgetting something. Like, oh, I forgot to make the glaze or like, Oh, I just completely Yeah, I love to be regimented. So like, this year for Thanksgiving, my sister in law, and I, we went, we did way too much, but in a good way. But she's also extremely regimented. And we wrote out our whole thing, and it started with like, go to Orangetheory 7am. Like, yes, like, come home, like, eat breakfast. Like we put every little thing like Sarah takes a shower. Tracy takes a shower, plus, obviously all the food things and then for Thanksgiving, because there's so many things like what goes in what oven like what times at what time and like what we have to like, we literally have to have a conversation of like, okay, can this be reheated this way? Like we do like a whole brain team brainstorm. Because Thanksgiving is like such a big one. And you have so many fucking dishes at Thanksgiving, like so many things you're making. That's like the timeline of the century, I can be a little more chill when it's just like, you know, BLT night, but it is, to me it is like the logistically it is the crucial like piece of hosting everything over and I can figure out, but if I don't have a guide for myself that I feel good about that I've like focused on, I've just feel lost, I feel lost grade kitchen.

Katherine Lewin 41:39

Agreed. And it's also like when you write it out physically, which I like to do, as opposed to a big Notes app or something. You can also edit in real time, if you're like, you know what, that didn't get done on time. And so I'm going to either decide, like, I'm pushing this out by an hour, or guess what, it's getting crossed through and we're not doing it. And that's also satisfying to be like, okay, the plan is changing in real time. Yeah, I am in control of the plan. And the plan is on control with me, you know,

Traci Thomas 42:02

yes, I love it. Okay, there's one more thing you have to tell me about that. I had no idea about you. That is the opposite of me. But social nap. Talk about it.

Katherine Lewin 42:12

Okay, so the thing is, I feel like this has been my like, dirty little secret of having a dinner party shop is that, you know, people are always like, Oh my God, You just must love to have people over me talking all night like people aren't people imagine that. I'm like this, like super extroverted person. And, you know, this is my way of coming out and saying I'm not an extrovert. In fact, I am a true introvert in that I really recharge and gain energy when I'm alone. Which is ironic considering I also love to have people over, right. And so my, my solution and how I reconcile these two parts of myself, is that I have realized that it is okay for me to take a little break whenever I need during a dinner party. And that break is called a social nap. And it is when I go into my bedroom, and I you know, I don't make any mention of the sandy buddy, I just slip out, go to my bedroom, turn off the lights, and then just lay quietly in my bed in the quiet in the silence in the dark. And actually, and I don't know if I put this in the book or not. What's actually so joyful about the social now is that like, I love hearing all my friends, like laughing and enjoying the party. And like I love eavesdropping on their conversations, like from my bedroom. Even if I'm not part of it. I'm like having my alone time I'm in timeout, but they're having a great time. And like there's so much joy that comes from that. And if I just spend five or 10 minutes or however long it takes for my friends to realize I've disappeared and come in after me. Those five or 10 minutes can like, give me all of the restoration that I need to come back and enjoy the rest of the night. But I just I just want it I want to normalize the social map. And I want people to know that they don't have to be on for six hours to have a party they can like go have their quiet time and be all the better for it when they come back.

Traci Thomas 44:11

I love it. I would never do it. Um, it's impossible for me to be away from other human beings. I'm like, oh my god, people are here. I have to hang out and talk to them the whole time. I can't stop. But I do love this for you and my husband. He does sort of he will disappear for times but also held us up here for like a long time and I'm like, can you come back like people are at our house. I'm like, okay, too long, a little long. But he does. He's on into it as much as I am. I love it and you know, he something he has to just deal with so I we let him do whatever he wants. Okay, is there anything that's not in the book that you wish was or could have been?

Katherine Lewin 44:48

One of my favorite parts of the book is I have these guest these guests at the dinner party. And I have I have four guest contributors. Three of them. contribute recipes. And one of them is a good friend of mine in the wine world, and she gives us some excellent wine knowledge. And I had so much fun bringing in those guest stars into the book. And I just would have loved to do even more like I think one of the great privileges of opening the shop is I've gotten to meet. So many people like my world has become exponentially larger, because some of the people that I've gotten to meet and the stories that I've gotten to hear, and I'm talking about, like partners and vendors, but I'm also talking about our customers, like the people that shopped with us know how to host better than anybody. And like, you know, in my dream worlds, you know, in the future, there's a book that can feature more of their stories, because I just, I love to be a fly on the wall in the store and listening to how people host and what they do and what their traditions are. And if I could, I would have so many other stories in here.

Traci Thomas 46:01

I love that you should do that on social media for big night. You guys should do like a little series where you interview people and you ask them like their biggest hosting tip or like what their menu is, I would love to see that. That would be so agree. Let me just add something to your plate. Here's another idea to do an entire series.

Katherine Lewin 46:21

You move into the store and you interview customers and it will be your series honestly,

Traci Thomas 46:27

I would love to I got to go to the store once and was so excited and was like selling things.

Katherine Lewin 46:31

You fully sold things from the store. You were like that platter is incredible. You have to get it right now. And it works. Have you ever been in retail?

Traci Thomas 46:41

I did. I used to work at Lululemon.

Katherine Lewin 46:43

Okay, and I bet you were really good at your job.

Traci Thomas 46:45

I do love leggings. Like, I mean, I like talking to people I feel like so much of sales is just like being okay with like, it's sort of a cold email.

Katherine Lewin 46:56

Constantly. It's just a constant cold email.

Traci Thomas 46:58

Yeah, you're so right. But the thing about it is like someone has walked into the store. So there's at least an interest. So it doesn't like if I was on the street and was like, Hey, go into that shop, I would hate that. But it's like, once you're here, you're kind of like you see people like looking around. It's like, well, clearly this person is trying to figure out something. So you just like, Oh, what are you looking for? And then they'll like, Oh my God, that's great. That's easy. That's how I feel they let me do me a guest book seller at my at a reparations club here every year for any bookstore day. And it's like, the greatest day of my life. I just go people and I'm like, hey, what do I get to just like, talk to them about books, and then be like, Okay, this is what you're gonna like. And this year, someone had come last year, and we were talking and I didn't recognize her face. But she's like, Oh, you recommended this to me last year. I was like, oh my god, I do remember you. Oh my god. And it was such a joy. And I love that part of retail too. Even though I don't think I could actually work in retail long term. But I do really enjoy. It's more about the connection. I'm less concerned about actually selling the item because I don't I don't know in the store, like connection is the most important thing.

Katherine Lewin 48:03

That connection is what sells it also, should we have a Stacks bookstore in our future?

Traci Thomas 48:09

No, because I don't want to compete with all the lovely bookstores that are doing great work. I'm like, no thank you. But I have thought about it, but I don't think so. It seems really hard to have a store.

Katherine Lewin 48:24

Yeah, it's a little tricky. I love the idea of you being a guest bookseller. If I walked into a store and you were the guest starring bookseller that day I would be so excited to get your recommendation.

Traci Thomas 48:34

I love that; thank you. Okay, let's talk about how you like to write. I know you have a full time job owning these shops and doing all this other stuff. You're super busy. How did you carve out time to write how many hours a day how often music or no snacks and beverages were did you do it in the shop at your house, somewhere else at that lovely coffee shop that sells Sloane tea that I'm obsessed with? Besides Big Night, duh.

Katherine Lewin 49:06

I had to get away from the stores. Well, first of all, it's very hard for me to do any kind of like laptop or computer work at the shops because I open stores because I love to create those experiences for people. So when I'm in the store, I want to be like running around re merchandising things or telling people about them or reading new signage or whatever. Like when I'm in a store I can I'm like a kid in a candy shop running all around so it could not be in the shops and then at the time that I was writing the book, my house was actually about 45 seconds from the shops front door. So even my apartment felt like almost distractingly like no I could just like go down to the shop and like see what's going on over there. You know? Um, so once we got the West Village store open, I took a week And my lovely coworker actually offered up her cabin in upstate New York and I went up upstate, and I was writing, but I was also like cooking my way through recipes at the same time. And I don't know how many hours but it was truly like from 7am until whenever I like conked out for the night, it was a mix of cooking and writing. And I will say that, like what I, I can work really well under pressure. And so the pressurized cabin of like you have, you have one week to cook through as many recipes you possibly can and write about them. And like kind of felt like my own little reality show. And I got a lot of like with that week of only doing that it really set me up on a path to like, just power through. And then I had another week like that a little bit later in the summer. But I think this book was so much fun to work on, because it isn't just the recipes. And then of course the head notes that go with the recipes, there's all of this other content, although I hate that word, there's, there's lots of other guides within the book that are a little bit more narrative that are a little bit more that go beyond the kitchen. And so for me to be able to bounce between the different, you know, types of content in the book was really energizing. Like any moment that I got kind of tired of telling people about the recipe via head note, I'd be like, okay, drop, we're moving on to there's a lot of personal stuff in there where I talked about sort of like my own experiences and hosting. And then when the personal stuff got to personal it was like okay, drop moving on to let's talk about how to set the table, you know, and so I kind of I feel like I really appreciated those different parts of the book that make it what it is because it made writing, never feel to wrote and it felt like I'd had a lot of a lot of opportunity to flex different writing muscles.

Traci Thomas 51:50

How did you possibly answer that question without mentioning snacks or beverages?

Katherine Lewin 51:56

Okay. I get so distracted by snacks and beverages that like it's the snacks and beverages are like a carrot that I didn't go for myself like okay, if you knock out these five headnotes in the next hour, then you can take a break and raid the pantry and pick any snack you want. Like that's my vibe. Not like not like having the tin of chips next to me and eating like this because if I do, I will just not right and just eat an entire tin of chips instead.

Traci Thomas 52:32

Okay, I'll allow that because I know that you are a snacker. But something in your book that we had never talked about. To my knowledge I do not think that truly let me know that we were meant to be friends. Said here on page 16. You talk about snack spread essentials, and you have a list of great olive oil, tinned fish, all these things and at the very bottom, you say nostalgic, nostalgic faves. Oreos for Sunday's writs for dips, Swedish Fish for any time. Trust me, did you know that I love Swedish Fish more than anything in this world and I have my own snack that I have invented called a pescatarian which is where you take goldfish and Swedish Fish and put them in a bowl together and eat that. I love Swedish Fish more than anything.

Katherine Lewin 53:21

First of all, that dish like put it up and tik tok and the world is gonna freak o.ut over it. But also Swedish Fish is the perfect candy and I will not be taking any other notes on that matter

Traci Thomas 53:31

Imagine being like, oh chocolate, when like a fucking hot red candy that is chewy, sweet and perfect. Especially the minis.

Katherine Lewin 53:40

It's perfect. No Swedish Fish is a perfect food. It's like somehow it scratches this sweets itch, but also the snacks itch. Which I think is really important.

Traci Thomas 53:50

We've never talked about this, but we've never talked about this. I feel so see. Like when I saw that in the book. I was like, because as I was reading that section when I saw the like, whatever I was like oh, and obviously goldfish in Swedish fish like joking to myself, but then I was like, the Swedish Fish. My snack!

Katherine Lewin 54:06

And like if you put a Swedish Fish out, like at a dinner party table people are gonna be like, Fuck yes. Give me the Swedish Fish. Such a welcome surprise to see something that's just like, yeah, nostalgic favorite, where you're like, I don't want any of this fancy cheese. I just want I want a fistful of Swedish Fish.

Traci Thomas 54:23

I feel like sometimes people get so self serious about these things where it's like, oh, I have to have like this fancy cracker and I'm like, no baby. You could just have a Ritz sometimes, like it does what needs to be done.

Katherine Lewin 54:36

But when's the last time you had a Ritz because truly Ritz are so good. If you haven't had it in a while and you're listening to this, this is your sign like just get a sleeve of Ritz going right now.

Traci Thomas 54:49

Also saltines are amazing. Amazing. I sometimes make myself because I have small kids. You know sometimes I make myself my little peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on Saltines.

Katherine Lewin 55:00

I mean, that sounds like the snack I want right now.

Traci Thomas 55:03

It's amazing. Okay, I have a few more questions for you. One is what is up Word you can never spell correctly on the first try?

Katherine Lewin 55:12

Parallel. I never know where the L's go, because there's three L's total. And I never know where the Double L goes.

Traci Thomas 55:20

A great question is how many R's are there? Because I would have said two R's. But that feels wrong. Yeah, I'm a terrible speller, like, truly horrific. I would go P A, R R, A L, L, E, L, L, and just throw them all in and say choose your own adventure.

Katherine Lewin 55:36

But AI has got you now so you're fine. You're fine.

Traci Thomas 55:38

I'm so bad sometimes the red line, there's no suggestions. And I just start over like multiple times, because I have no clue where I am. It's just like letter stew. Do you have anything new and exciting coming next for you? Or are you just chilling out? Because you did this massive endeavor while still opening a new shop and opening a shop and all that? Or is there anything on the horizon that we need to know about?

Katherine Lewin 56:04

Chilling out? Who's she? Can I get invited to her party? She sounds great. Well, the book is out. And it's a dinner party book, which means I need to throw some dinner parties. So we're going to be doing that in a few cities around the country, including LA. So watch out for those details. Lots of parties and our future lots of big nights in our future. I can't wait to share this book with people and hopefully meet them in real life.

Traci Thomas 56:36

I can't wait. Wait, you got to tell me people can order all over the country from the store even if they don't come to New York.

Katherine Lewin 56:43

Absolutely, you can. I would love that. Our web address is www.shopbignight.com. We ship all over the country. And you'll really find the best of the best of the shop online. And it's it's actually something that I worked really hard on creating an online experience that I felt like capturing what it feels like to walk into the store that was super important to me. So obviously, it's not IRL. But I do think it's the next best thing.

Traci Thomas 57:16

For people who love this book. What are some other books that you might recommend to them that are in conversation with what you've created?

Katherine Lewin 57:23

That's an overwhelming question because I could name so many.

Traci Thomas 57:27

Pick a few, pick like two or three.

Katherine Lewin 57:30

Okay, well, let's start with Priya Parker. If you haven't read The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker, and gathering is something that you like to do or want to do more, I would highly, highly recommend that. One of my primary research texts and writing this book was an Ina book that I don't think gets enough love. The title of this book is Parties!, exclamation point. That is literally the name of the book. And, you know, it flies under the radar. I don't know why people don't talk about this book more, but it's great. And I would say if you're an Ina fan, and you haven't read Parties!, you got to do it. Because there's just a treasure treasure trove of fun things in there.

Traci Thomas 58:17

I've never read it and I love Ina. Okay,

Katherine Lewin 58:20

You gotta. Similarly, you know, when I was reading this book, I wanted to kind of like, go back in time a little and look at other entertaining books that have like really influenced us. And have you ever heard of the Silver Palette cookbook? Do you know what that is? No? Okay, that's another seminal text that you should take a look at. It was these two gals who had a really successful catering business. And people constantly ask them for their tips and their recipes. And they created this cookbook called the silver palate cookbook. And it their whole background is in serving crowds of people. And in a way it feels like such a time capsule of when they were cooking. And actually, my mom was the first one that told me about this cookbook, and she wouldn't stop talking about this recipe. That's like salmon tartar cured with vodka. And like, if that's not like peak 80s. I don't even I don't even know what it is. But it's just over the top and silly. And flipping through that book feels like going back in time and seeing what people thought was really lux and glam and like 1986 and it was really fun to read. So that was definitely by my bedside table as I was writing too.

Traci Thomas 59:43

Okay, I gotta read it. Last question. If you could have one person dead or alive, read this book. Who would you want it to be?

Katherine Lewin 59:50

I could go in so many million billion directions with this, but the person who's writing about food influenced me the most and who's approach to sharing food with others influenced me the most is probably Samin Nosrat. Because I, her book taught me how to be a better cook, and just who she is and like the warmth that she brings to all that she does around food is has been such an inspiration to me. Because ultimately, you know, when I created Big Night, the shop like obviously, yes, I'm building a business, but I really just wanted to make a place that people would walk into and feel welcomed, and included and warm and happy. And she is somebody in the food world that embodies all of that.

Traci Thomas 1:00:38

I love that so much. That's a perfect answer for you. Actually. We started on this note of you being a collector of friends and I wanted to mention this because I you might think that maybe you are you aren't, but I know that you are for a fact because in the book you talked about when your husband proposed to you, and he invited your closest friends, and he invited 17 of your closest friends. Only a collector of people has 17 best friends.

Katherine Lewin 1:01:06

But you know what he those were people from all throughout my life. So it was like the childhood oldest friends the college friends the you know different phases of career friends.

Traci Thomas 1:01:17

Seventeen is so many people some people have like two friends like that is like a menagerie. Katherine's friends, I love it. I love it. And I feel like it makes sense that you wrote this book and you have that store because you are like a central figure in so many lives, obviously. And I just I love the book. I hope that people will read it and cook from it. And even if they never cook a single recipe from it, I hope that they'll get inspired to gather because I'm like excited to have my next thing. I can't wait. I love it. You can get it now. Wherever you get your books, Katherine, thank you for being here.

Katherine Lewin 1:01:53

Thank you, Traci. I mean, this has been the most fun and I can't believe we get to meet years later on this podcast.

Traci Thomas 1:02:00

I know. It's crazy. I'm like this was not on our bucket list. I think when we first met that this would even be a possibility but here we are. We're like that the hot chicken wing meme with Paul Rudd. Look at us. And everyone else we will see you in the stacks.

All right, y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening and thank you again to Katherine for joining the show. I would also like to say a super huge thank you to my friend and a person who made this episode possible Skyler Okley. Remember Emily Raboteau will be back on July 31st for The Stacks book club discussion of Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks to join The Stacks Pack and subscribe to my newsletter at TraciThomas.substack.com. Make sure you're subscribed to The Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave a rating and a review. For more from The Stacks follow us on social media at thestackspod on Instagram, Threads and TikTok and at thestackspod_ on Twitter and you can check out my website at thestackspodcast.com. This episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas, with production assistance from Lauren Tyree. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Megan Caballero
Previous

Ep. 328 An Impulse to Explore with Adam Higginbotham
Next

Ep. 326 You Can’t Opt Out with Emily Raboteau