Ep. 287 Ending Racism with Minda Honey – Transcript

Political and relationship essayist Minda Honey is here to discuss her new book The Heartbreak Years: A Memoir. We talk about Minda’s experience of being Black and Filipina, colorism and the internet’s lack of nuance, how her exes have taken her writing about them and how she cured racism with this book. Also, we hear about Minda’s reading tracker and annual mega-reading challenge.

The Stacks Book Club selection for October is Tar Baby by Toni Morrison. We will discuss the book on October 25th with Minda Honey.


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Traci Thomas 0:08
Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I’m your host Traci Thomas and today I’m speaking with Minda Honey. Minda is the author of a brand new memoir called The Heartbreak Years. It’s a hilarious and frank account of a Black woman’s turbulent search for love in her 20s in Los Angeles, with much wisdom and compassion for her younger self. Minda addresses her past relationships while talking about the complicated dynamics of race, class, gender, and of course consent culture. We talk today about why it’s hard to talk about our mixed identities, sharing intimate details with the world and about Minda’s intense, and frankly, admirable reading dashboard tracker system. Remember, this month’s book club discussion will happen on October 25 when Minda Honey returns to discuss Tar Baby by Toni Morrison. Everything we talked about on each episode of The Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. If you like this show, or you just like books, or maybe you really love snacks, and you want to be a part of a community that is excited by all of those things and more head to patreon.com/the stacks and join the stacks pack. All right now it is time for my conversation with Minda Honey.

Alright everybody I am so excited. It is October it is Toni Morrison month and to talk about Toni Morrison at the end of the month, I have brought in an author-professor. Her new book is called The Heartbreak Years; it’s a memoir. Minda, welcome to- Minda Honey, I should say Minda Honey. Welcome to The Stacks.

Minda Honey 2:30
Thank you so much for having me, Traci.

Traci Thomas 2:33
I’m so excited to have you I’m so excited to talk about your book and then also later in the month to talk about Toni Morrison it’s always like the the episode of the year is what Toni Morrison reading so we’ll get there like a ton of pressure. So read up really got no because I’m gonna be the idiot who’s like I didn’t understand it. And then you’re gonna have to explain the entire book to me.

Minda Honey 2:53
So, that happened. My sister when her book club read Sula, like she borrowed my coffee and was like making fun of me because it’s all marked up. It’s got all these tabs on it. And then like by the end, she was like, can you just come to book club and explain that?

Traci Thomas 3:08
That’s the episode we did on Beloved. We did it with the Marcus B Hill. And that was in 2019. So was the second Toni Morrison book we did. And I she came to my house was pre COVID. And I used to always record at my house, she came to my house and I was like, you know, thanks for being here. So glad to meet you loved your book. Also, just want to let you know, when we get to the Toni Morrison part. I’m just gonna ask you a lot of questions. And then you just explain the book to me. And she did and it’s still one of like the best episodes, but I always feel like a failure when we do Toni Morrison. So I bring I bring in the big guns like yo, but before we get to that, before we get to that, why don’t you tell folks a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your book.

Minda Honey 3:48
Okay, So I’m Minda Honey, I’m from Louisville, Kentucky. And my book is about how in my 20s, I moved to Southern California, with my high school sweetheart to house it for his grandparents. And after six years of dating, we broke up. So I was 23 Obama had just become president. And suddenly I had to learn how to like date as an adult for the first time. And I was a Southerner in Southern California. So it was also completely out of context. In so many ways. Like I say, it’s kind of like when you go from middle school to high school and you’re like, oh my gosh, all my clothes are so childish. You know, like, it was like, I felt like everyone was so much cooler than me. I’d never even like valued my car before.

Traci Thomas 4:33
You didn’t know how to use chopsticks.

Minda Honey 4:35
I didn’t know how to use chopsticks, which was an embarrassing detail. I had forgotten about myself. But yeah, so like, I just really had to learn so many things over the course of my 20s like so many of us do.

Traci Thomas 4:49
Yeah, I was when I was reading the book. You know, it starts with Obama getting elected. And it sort of ends you know, with Trump getting elected and I thought this is sort of like the black The millennial woman’s dating version of we were eight years in power. It’s not the like political. It’s not like the political like case for reparation. But I was like this is framed in such a similar way.

Minda Honey 5:17
My publicist, she said that so she-

Traci Thomas 5:20
Blurb it yeah, let’s learn the black millennial dating. We were eight years. I was like, literally in the bathtub. And I was like, this is like, I would never frame it that way. But then when I got it, and I was like, Okay, we’re gonna talk more about the book. But do you want to talk a little bit about you as a person? First of all, I live in LA. So I was loving reading all the LA references. But I want to know, like, you teach writing, you teach creative writing. And one of the things that I was thinking about as I was reading the book, and just like, in general, is, who is teaching you? Like, where do you? Who do you look to for inspiration when it comes to creative writing? Like, who are the people that inspire you or excite you? Who are your teachers, all of that kind of stuff?

Minda Honey 6:08
You know, so, I mean, currently, right now, I’m an editor. I’m the editor of Black joy for wreckin. So we get to traffic and positive, uplifting black stories. But yes, I teach creative writing workshops online. And previously, I was the director of an undergraduate creative writing program. And throughout the course of my life, like I was one of those people who from a very young age was just like always writing writing my stories, typing up my stories, my dad was a computer programmer. So I learned how to type very early in life, me and Mavis Beacon, got together very early. So I was always just kind of like writing and I had all of these ideas that I think were countered to what standard like, there’s this idea of good writing, being kind of like the minimalist design aesthetic, like it needs to be sparse, and it needs to not be emotional. And my stuff was very much like the thickest sloppiest peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you can make, you know, like, I wanted all the adjectives, I wanted the longest sentence as possible, I wanted all the drama. So that put me a lot of times in conflict with my undergraduate Creative Writing professors. But I think there’s just like a certain amount of like denseness or naiveness, that I just kept writing, anyways, and I just kept writing the things I wanted to write, like I talked about in the book, how when I moved to Orange County, I found this writing group on meetup.com. And it was all elderly, white people, like they all had to be 20 to 40 years older than me. And they’re writing things like based on the Socratic method, or like, all this stuff. And then here I come with, my boyfriend broke up with me, and I want to tell myself, like, every week, you know, the men are all like rolling their eyes at me. And for whatever reason, I just, I just kept coming back. And so by the time I got to grad school, and I got to my MFA program, and the chapter in my book about the guy that I date, who, you know, he’s got erectile dysfunction, like that, actually, was my MFA submission. And, yeah, and again, it did not occur to me that like, hey, maybe this should not be people’s first introduction to your writing. So, but that’s what I did. That’s what I sent out, you got in. And I got in, and the professors were very, you know, aware of what they were getting in me as a writer. But, you know, I got into my MFA program, and I felt like everyone else had read this entire different series of books than I had, because I hadn’t read any of like, you know, I can’t even think about think of these men’s names anymore. All the Michaels and the friends. I hadn’t read these people. I hadn’t heard of these people like I but I had read Morrison and I had read Zora Neale Hurston. And those were actually the writers I wanted to be like, anyways. So, to make this an even longer response to your question, I think like, I really just kind of learned from the writers that I admired by like reverse engineering, the books that I was reading, and then also by being just like very committed to who I was as a person and wanting that to come across on the page. And now one of the things that people I feel like praise the most in my writing is my voice as a writer. And so that was honed through stubbornness over decades of writing.

Traci Thomas 9:49
Yeah, I think that’s like the first thing that I thought of when I finished the book was like, she’s just got such like a strong voice. I didn’t feel like you really like bring your characters or the people in your life. to life for us, like I was like, Oh, I definitely know who the fuck Chevy is. Let me tell you, I’m familiar with that guy.

Minda Honey 10:07
You’re like, I’ve backed up a few Chevy’s in my day.

Traci Thomas 10:10
No, no, I’m like the opposite of you. I was like living vicariously through now. But I, but I know. But I know a show. Like, you know, I’m friends with enough Chevy’s to fill a lot, if you will. But I do want to know, okay, so I’m so curious about this, the book as we’re talking isn’t out yet in the world. So you’re not going to have as good of an answer to this question as I want. But you’ll have to come back to me and tell me like in the future, but did you send this book, like arcs of this book to the men that you write about? Slash? Did you check in with them? Or did you change them enough that you feel like they won’t know? Like, how did you balance because like, you’re talking about erectile dysfunction, you’re talking about guys who are cheating on their partners with you and vice versa? Like you’re talking about really intimate stuff about other people, not just yourself. So I’m wondering like, how much did you change it? How much did you say like, Hey, Chevy, are artists formerly known as Chevy, like, you might recognize yourself? Because you’re here.

Minda Honey 11:15
So back in the day, when I was in my MFA program, I got this opportunity at the LA Book Festival, the LA Times Book Festival to interview Issa Rae. And it was right around when her memoir had come out. And she writes about the men she dated. And I asked her basically the same question. And she was like, Oh, I wasn’t really dating men who read. Oh, me neither.

Traci Thomas 11:43
One of the guys read the Toni Morrison Great Gatsby guy.

Minda Honey 11:47
Yes, I’m sure. But you know, we had a legal read with this book. And so we definitely went through and changed up things. You know, change names, change the details, changed locations. I say in the light kind of note, before you get into the book that some places I’m very vague. And ultimately, I’ve really tried to make this even though I’m like writing about the situations I had with other people, I’m really kind of like focusing on myself and my own shortcomings. And the way that I changed through those relationships with those folks. Because at the end of the day, like none of those, like, as hard as you want to try as a writer, as a memoirist, as an essay is to capture someone else, you can only create characters out of them, you can only create characters out of you, because I only knew this one facet of a multifaceted person. And I’m talking about something that happened 15 years ago, like that person who does not exist anymore. The version of who I was 15 years ago does not exist anymore. So you’re not really they’re not really like that closely, like anchored into the actual person that you know, is out in the world at this moment. Some of the men like you know, I’m still in contact with and so they like were aware that the book was coming out my my high school sweetheart, like I remember, we had a phone conversation years ago, and I had mentioned that, like, I was working on this book. And before I can even finish the sentence, he was like, oh, write whatever you want about me. Like, I wasn’t asking for permission, but also like, Thanks, you know, yeah, so, so yeah, so I you know, some of the people you’re sharing call on, I’m still in contact with, some of them haven’t spoken to, since that, that time in our lives where our lives overlapped.

Traci Thomas 13:33
Yeah. That was another note I took was like, Damn, she’s really in contact with a lot of her exes. As like men. Yeah. So, um, as far as like, divulging about yourself and your life. And I think about this a lot also, with memoirists. And, you know, do you struggle at all with sharing some of these like really intimate parts of your life? Like, you’re you said, you’re a writer, but you’re also an editor, you formally were a professor, you teach workshops, like you’re in contact with people all the time? Is that stressful, scary for you? Like there’s, there’s a part of the book, when you talk about your like about race, you talk about your mom, and how she’s Filipina and Chinese, but also black. And then you make this comment about your black grandfather, your mother’s father, and you’re like, you know, that’s just like one of those things that doesn’t really come up. It’s like a little too intimate to talk about, but I’m like, sitting there reading it being like, I don’t know you and I’m reading this like, is it too intimate for me to know so like, I’m just wondering, like, how you know, when it’s okay to put something on the page. And and if you feel nervous or stressed or anything or excited for people to read this stuff about you.

Minda Honey 14:40
I think it just changes from draft to draft. Like there were absolutely chapters or things that we’re in this book, all the way up until like the last round of like, full revisions that at the last moment, I was like, You know what, I’m gonna cut this I’m not comfortable putting this out in the world or this is too much Someone else’s story and not my own story. So I’m going to pull this out, there were things that maybe I wasn’t initially comfortable sharing, but I was like, you know, if I’m going to write about this particular topic, or I’m going to tell the story at all, then I have to tell this thing as well. And so it just needs to go out at this point, I’ve also published a lot of essays. And so I’ve been through the experience a lot of being very worried about something going out into the world and like, what the reaction will be how people will feel about it. And, you know, coming out on the other side of like, Oh, that wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be, you know, the essay, farewell to fuckboys went super viral, and it appears in this book, but split up into three separate chapters, just so that it fits the timeline of the book. But you know, Chevy and I were not on speaking terms when that essay went viral. So when we did speak, like a year or two later, when the pandemic hit, you know, like, that was one of the first things he said to me was, like, Oh, I like I read the essay. He’s like, I’ve read that essay, like 20 times, and I now have such a better understanding of like you as a person and like, your side of like, what was going on then and like, who you think I am as a person. So you know, like, I’ve just kind of learned through those experiences. Also, some of the things that were really hard to publish, that I’ve put out in the world about myself, you know, the, the emails, some of the emails you get, you’re just like, you could have saved this, you could have kept it. But sometimes you get emails from people are like, you know, what you really like you really articulated something that’s been weighing on me, or this really helped me see this in a different way. You know, I’ve had a lot of men reach out to me and say, this has really made me reconsider my relationships with women are this isn’t really made me have more empathy for my mother, who I witnessed going through situations like this. So there is the upside of, of that transparency and that vulnerability. And then I would also just kind of like ask, have you ever read the memoir of someone you’re really close to? So?

Traci Thomas 17:07
Okay, so at this point, I have a lot of writers not so you know, not, not before I become friends with some memoirists, whose books read, but i don’t i That’s not true. I did read a memoir of a friend of mine, but it was a memoir, self help. So it was different.

Minda Honey 17:21
Okay. Yeah, well, so like, at this point, my life, I have friends who have written like memoirs, and it’s so surreal to me, because it’s like, Oh, I feel like I know this person. But then you read the book. And there’s all these other things that you didn’t know about them. But you don’t come out of reading the book feeling like, Oh, now I know you like it’s almost two separate people. So I think it’s the same thing with this book. And like, it’s like, yeah, when I first meet somebody on the street, I don’t wanna have to be like, Oh, I’m black. And I’m Filipino. But my mom is this and this and that. But I also don’t, you know, expect that if somebody reads the book, suddenly, they’re going to feel like we’re besties I think sometimes because of our parasocial society, that happens. But I can’t like presume that that will be the go forward.

Traci Thomas 18:10
Right, right. That’s interesting. Well, let’s talk about race for a second. So you’re, as we said, your mom’s Filipino and Chinese and black, but she was raised Filipina was not in relationship with your grandfather, and your dad is black. And in the book, you say very clear that you identify as black. And you say my mom is Filipino. I’m just really curious about that. Because I’m mixed also. And I do say that I’m black, but I say that I mixed also, like I say both things sort of energy. It just depends on how someone asks me to be honest, because sometimes you can tell what they’re getting at. Versus like, if I’m just self identifying. I say that I’m black, but then people are like, and I’m like, Yeah, my mom was white like that. Because Because also recently I was a student of the podcast higher learning with Rachel Lindsay and Van lengthen. It’s a podcast on the ringer network. Do you know Mark Lamont Hill? Yeah. Okay, so it’s all three, they’re all three black people. And they were talking about sage steel and like mixed people. And like, when mixed people say that, you know, I’m black and white, or like, whatever how that’s like, not true that they’re just black. And so I was just, I don’t know, reading that part of your memoir made me think of that conversation and like, think about how I think about myself. And I’d love for you just to talk about like, why you say because, let me sorry, let me go. I’m like doing like 10 things. Let me just say this again, or let me say this more clearly. I guess. Part of the reason I asked this question is because I’m black and white. I feel like my blackness fully overrides my whiteness because of the way that race is in America. But because you’re black and Filipina, I feel like race is at play in a different way where tonight not include your Filipina and this is like maybe like might feel like some some form of a ratio of part of who you are in a way that me being like, I’m black and white, but like Actually, every black Americans also black and white, like, into it. And my mom is Jewish. So I will say that I’m black and Jewish, you know. So I’m just like wondering how you navigate being mixed up to things that aren’t white. Because I feel like that’s where it kind of gets interesting to me. Sorry, I didn’t really flesh that out in my head. And as I was doing it, I was like, I’m not doing a good job getting my point across-

Minda Honey 20:24
The colorism chapter was one of the hardest chapters to write because it is something that is difficult to talk about clearly. And because terms like come in and out of vogue. So there, you know, there have been periods where saying mixed was like, you know, a major nono, woman of color, when that term became very popular is like, Yes, this is it. I’m a woman of color. And then, like, came out hard, so hard against that term. And then for a while, the discourse on Twitter was that like, oh, biracial people calling themselves by racial feeling like they’re better than black people, like, if you’re any part black, you’re black. But now, the conversation has shifted to oh, you can’t just claim black if you don’t have four black grandparents. And so like the discourse is constantly shifting, the experience that you know, you have as a multiracial person is there’s no like, kind of like blueprint for it, because there’s just so many different variables at play. And then there’s also the way that like, you come into your identity over the course of time, like, you know, I remember at one point, and during my MFA, I was working on an essay about my mother, and my professor was like, Oh, why are you writing about this now? Is it because identity politics is trendy? And it’s like, Nah, bro, because it took me three decades to like, figure out my blackness. Now I gotta time to sit down and think about my Filipino. Like, you can’t do it all in the afternoon. So it’s not necessarily that I’m erasing my Filipino Filipino side, or that I only feel black. But it’s more like I say in the book that I feel like black, parentheses Filipino, because I grew up in the United States I grew up with in the context of my father’s black family. But then we also, you know, my mom had this whole community of other Filipinos who were married to military men. So I had this Filipino American experience, but it’s very different than a lot of other people’s Filipino American experience, because it’s also this Filipino military American experience. Oh, and by the way, I’m in Kentucky. So there’s not a lot of reference points for other people. So it does become very difficult to explain this to people. And then because there were certain things that my Filipino bonus displace when it came to like black cultural touchstones. Because my mother is Filipino and grew up in the Philippines, there were just certain things that, you know, we didn’t do in our household or didn’t speak about or hadn’t been exposed to. So there were those ways in which like, it made me feel like as an outsider within the black community, but then on the Filipino side, being black, being darker skinned, like there were times in which like, I felt excluded from the Filipino community unless my mom was like, literally standing right beside me. And it wasn’t actually until I became a writer and I got older that I was really embraced by other Filipino writers that I started to really feel like I was finding my place within the Filipino community. And then the other thing to remember too, is like my mom, her mother passed away when she was 16. And then my mother meets my father at 17 marries him comes to a completely different country where she doesn’t know anyone, she doesn’t speak the language. So there was also this part of now all of a sudden, she’s supposed to be responsible for handing down like Filipino culture, capital F, capital C, and in a way that she just wasn’t prepared to because in many ways, she was still a child, and she was a motherless child. So all of those things, and all of these like additional layers of complications, and it’s just not an easy thing to articulate. And then also, it’s a loaded thing. And it’s a thing that people are going to bring a lot of their feelings to, you know, I ended up on lipstick alley once where there were people upset that I was writing about black woman’s singlehood and I had also wanted to include black trans women. And then all of a sudden people were trying to say that I was trying to make trans women the face of black womanhood and what right did I have because I have an Asian mother. And I’m like, yo, like I was impacted by a chattel slavery and colonialism on like both sides. I am a fully oppressed person, right? Yeah, you can’t be You’re having these arguments with people?

Traci Thomas 25:02
No, it’s like impossible. And I always like, I just laugh sometimes at like, the way that people try to frame race, outside of the context of how race is framed in America, like, they’ll be like, Oh, well, you don’t have four black grandparents, I’m like, well, that’s not a prerequisite for being black for the entire history of this country. So I’ve had black experience, regardless of what my grandparents look like, because that’s the way that race is framed in America. Like, we could have this conversation in a different version of this country. But unfortunately, the one drop rule and the laws around slavery and who like that, that outweighs your opinion, oh, my grandfather, you know, like, it’s just such an interesting thing that people who I think like, generally don’t understand the history of race in America try to do to make a point about who’s you know, to, like, make a hierarchy or whatever. But it’s like, Sure, you’re right. But also, you’re so far out of bounds of what’s going on. And like, what’s been going on that it’s like, it can be super frustrating to have-

Minda Honey 26:03
I think at the end of the day, what people actually want is for you to acknowledge your privilege, and it’s like, I can do that without erasing my black experience, like I’ve not, I’ve never gone out into the world and been discriminated against because I’m Filipino. Like, you don’t like that, or because my mother’s an immigrant, like that’s never happened. Like when all of these Asian American hate crimes were happening. I was worried about my mother, I wasn’t worried about like, somebody was going to attack me for being Asian. Whereas when I do leave the house, I do have to worry about, you know, any violence that might come my way as a black woman. And so it’s like, yes, the fact that like, I’m multiracial, that I’m white skin that like I have certain hair textures, certain features, that I’m educated that I live in a certain zip code, all of those things, like, I can’t count on those things to keep me safe from white supremacist violence in America, but they don’t count for nothing. And so both of those things can be true. And it’s the reality is that it’s just a nuanced conversation that not everyone is prepared to have. So you just can’t have it. Anyway. But what you can do if you write an entire memoir, is you can come to me this is fine. Together.

Traci Thomas 27:21
Yeah. And nobody can respond until you do your publicity.

Minda Honey 27:24
Oh, my gosh. I’ve been really surprised but because you know that, like you said, the books not officially out yet. But you know, there are people who have early copies. And so one of the things that’s been really surprising to me is that I’ve received messages from a number of older white people who all of a sudden feel like they’re like, you’ve opened my eyes to like, anti blackness in America. Now I understand why we don’t say all white lives and that black lives matter. You know, like with this book, I had literally this

Traci Thomas 27:59
was so interesting, because I like to talk about how I feel like your book is just like I’m black get over it. Like racism thing, like

Minda Honey 28:07
I’m like, Oh, I wrote a book about dating he heat but apparently the side quest was to change the minds and hearts of white America because yeah. Yes, I’m like getting messages from people are like, yeah, like it just really opened my eyes. All of the people that were like victims of police violence, I went on Wikipedia, and look them up because I read your wild.

Traci Thomas 28:29
Yes, yes. Is there another Minda Honey who wrote a book about like, I’m just dying that like, after 2020 1000 books came out that were like white people how to think about race, and you’re like, I thought Tella dudes, and sometimes it was fun, and sometimes it was wack. And also, I went on a lot of dates and got shit faced and people are like, you’ve you’ve ended racism. You’ve? Yes, you, Frederick Douglass of our times-

Minda Honey 28:56
A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. If you want to change, you know people’s mind about racism, wrap it in stories about sex.

Traci Thomas 29:06
Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. And also just a note for you. It should probably be a spoonful of Honey. I have to ask you about the title. And then we’re going to talk about your tastes and books. Your book is called the heartbreak years. You sort of frame that as that eight years in power, but eight years of heartbreak years or whatever. What years would you say that you are currently in?

Minda Honey 29:29
Oh, that’s so interesting. I think that’s hard to say because I’m in the so I don’t have the I don’t have the perspective on them yet. Someone did ask me. I was at like a fourth of July party and somebody was like oh, are your are your heartbreak years over? And I was like, you know, in a way yes. Like, don’t get me wrong. I’m still experiencing heartbreak. But I don’t think it’s as destabilizing as it once was. Because I’m more stable, and like in myself and who I am as a person in a way But like, if you’ve read the book, I clearly was not in my 20s.

Traci Thomas 30:03
You were not.

Minda Honey 30:07
I wasn’t alone in the instability.

Traci Thomas 30:09
No, you were not. Also, you mentioned a millennial Waiting to Exhale. I’m just are you going to write it or what’s that mean?

Minda Honey 30:20
Yeah, let us write a strike. And then somebody hit me up. All right and write the book.

Traci Thomas 30:24
Terry McMillan wrote the book.

Minda Honey 30:25
Oh, yeah, she didn’t write the book first. I’ve never written fiction. I’ve never liked it.

Traci Thomas 30:31
Well, this is a good place to start. You don’t have to, I don’t wait, hold on, I want to just say this. I don’t want I’m commissioning work from you. I don’t want you to actually write a millennial version of waiting to tell like I don’t want it to be the exact same story. But I just love like the ideas that you planted in the epilogue. So I feel like we need we just need our millennial Waiting to Exhale. But it should be totally different than the original. That’s just Yeah, send that out there. You should try writing fiction. Maybe.

Minda Honey 30:59
I just I had an undergrad professor who was like so mean to me. And like, I’d like I just stopped writing fiction at that point.

Traci Thomas 31:07
Okay, well, now you have to write it to be like, That person. We can send it to them with a no being like, bet you feel stupid now. Girl, or person. Okay, let’s take a quick break. And we’ll be right back. Okay, we’re back. We do this every month. It’s called Ask the stacks. Someone writes in, we give them a book recommendation. Before I read this. I just want to say to the listeners, send your book requests to ask the stacks at the stacks. podcast.com Because this is the last one I have in my inbox. So if you guys want to keep doing this, you need to send them okay. Ask the stacks of the SATs. podcast.com. All right. This one comes from Jason who says I want a novel about friendship. Most books are either about love or family or both. I want deep platonic bonds. So I have a few here I can get mine and then you can give yours or you can go first because it looks like you have an answer.

Minda Honey 32:08
I want to hear your answers first. Unless your answer is going to be Sula.

Traci Thomas 32:11
Then like, that’s one of my first covers. I actually put down four because I usually do three put down forks. I was like I bet Minda will say Sula.

Minda Honey 32:19
Yes, I absolutely recommend Sula. It’s my favorite Toni Morrison novel. It’s a slim little thing, but it’s packed with so many ideas, but it’s just one of the best representations. I think we have a friendship of black women’s friendships and then also just like the complications within friendships. So yeah, I absolutely recommend that and like, frankly, everyone needs to be reading more and Morrison. What else? Let me look at my bookshelf. Oh, you know, Ross Gay’s book of Delights. I think that he writes a lot about like his friendships and his friendships from his youth. And then the friendships that he’s fostered as an adult, particularly within the gardening community. Just the way that he writes about them are really beautiful. But you know, I have to give people a content warning with Ross Gaye because he’s out here claiming to be writing about joy and delight and they always hit you with the okay like there’s got to be undergirded.

Traci Thomas 33:19
There is great. That’s so funny that you’re right. You are right about him, but he is like Mr. joy and delight, and then you’re like, why am I feeling things? Yeah. Okay, here are mine. I did all I did all fiction. So Surprise, surprise for me. The first one is the ensemble by Asia Gable, which is about a string quartet like classical musicians and their friends. And it’s just like about their relationships professionally. And personally, though, I think maybe two of them do have a relationship, but it’s really not the focal point of the book. Another one is the nickel boys by Colson Whitehead. It’s about two young boys in those like horrible racist reformed schools in Florida like that were abusing black and brown kids. And then the last one is Another Brooklyn by Jacqueline Woodson, which is about a group for young women young, like teenage girls in Brooklyn, summer. It’s like summer vibe friend vibes. I love it. It’s my favorite Jacqueline Woodson. So those are my suggestions. If you read any of the books, Jason, let us know what you think what you thought. Also everyone again, email us the stacks at the stacks. podcast.com. So we can keep doing this. Otherwise, I’m gonna blame you and move on with my life.

Minda Honey 34:39
We can also slide a Waiting to Exhale and submit a classic read.

Traci Thomas 34:47
That’s exactly right. Well, we did Sula on the show and Waiting to Exhale on the show for book club so you could read it and listen to what we said about them. I love Though I will say this about Sula. Sula is a book about two people who To say that they are friends. But I’m not sure that Sula and now are friends. Like there’s a conversation to be had about what that relationship is. And what that relationship is it Yeah. It’s always touted as a book about friends but I when I think about it, I’m like, this is a book about friends like is that a friend that I was?

Minda Honey 35:22
I think I think friend like this topic of, like women’s early like the intensity of women’s early friendships with each other is a very trendy topic right now. Lily Dan siggers new book, I think is on this specific topic. But there’s a few there’s a few books that are coming and a few books that are currently out. And I think that Morrison and Sula are in that phase of like a friend challenge. It’s like that, that melding that happens. Yeah, there’s that tension. There’s that like, maybe there’s low simmering, like sexuality capturing like, yeah, happening in there. But it’s just like all consuming. And those are friendships that are very difficult to have once you’re in adults and a fully formed person. So it’s a very specific genre and friendship. Yeah. And I think that’s why it was so hard for them later in life and later in their friendship because Sula goes away. So the friendship doesn’t evolve, like it just stays in that really

Traci Thomas 36:24
intense thick place. Yeah, I feel like also the bluest eyes a book about friendship. I don’t know. It’s similar, though, right? It’s like the relationship that the sisters have with Nicola and like, what? It’s a book about friendship, but it’s not necessarily a book about friends.

Minda Honey 36:46
This is a book about itself.

Traci Thomas 36:52
That’s a fact. Okay, let’s talk let’s talk about books you love and hate. Let’s start where we always start two books you love one book you hate.

Minda Honey 37:00
Oh, wow. I mean, I always love KSA, laymen’s heavy. I, you know, I was, I’ve been like a longtime fan of KSA. And his writing, I was fortunate to, like get an early copy of heavy and like, it’s the writing really moves me. The things he writes about are very moving, but I also just learned so much from him as a writer, like I cannot read KSA while I’m writing because my writing will take on the same rhythm as his writing. And he also just loves a word with like a strong R in IT revolution concepts like revision revision Yes, it’s like you know, I don’t got that VDR words in my vocabulary essay. Um, so yeah, so you know, always love PSA and then a new favorite. Like in the process of becoming a favorite is destiny Hemphill destiny as a poet, and I’ve been working my way through mother world. And the entire book just feels like this incantation. I’m not a poet. And so I say like, oh, I don’t read a lot of poetry. But actually, I do read quite a bit of poetry at this point. Because a couple of years ago, I made a commitment to read poetry regularly. And this book I’ve already bought like two copies for other friends. You have you it’s an indie publisher, so you can go to action books to order it. But you know, just writing about mothering, writing about the black experience writing about nature and like dystopia. It’s just yeah, it’s just magic. It’s just like magic on the page. I don’t know how else to explain it other than go read it. It’s what all the cool kids are doing.

Traci Thomas 38:45
I love I’ve never I don’t think I’ve heard of that. Maybe I have to look at the cover. I remember I can only remember books by covers at this point. Like, I can’t remember titles or authors names anymore, because it’s too many. So many. I like I can’t keep up but if I see the cover, I’m like, Oh, okay.

Minda Honey 38:59
One of my team members put me on to it. They were like, You should read this book. And I was like, Okay, so, yeah,

Traci Thomas 39:06
I’d love a good recommendation. Okay, what’s one book you hate?

Minda Honey 39:09
I hate The Catcher in the Rye.

Traci Thomas 39:15
How old were you when you read it for the first time?

Minda Honey 39:17
Oh, wow. I was in high school. I was in high school. So it wasn’t in high school, or maybe like eighth grade, like eighth or ninth grade, right around in there. And I just remember being like, I don’t like this book. I don’t like this character. I don’t like this person. I don’t like whatever lesson it is, you feel like I should be taken away from this book. And then later in life, I read Sylvia Plath. And you know, the funny thing is, like, I haven’t really read any of her poetry aside from like, the random poem that will pop up on your Instagram feed, but I’ve never sat down and read her poetry collection, but I read The Bell Jar. And so when I read Sylvia plus the bell jars, like, oh, like all of a sudden, what people think The Catcher in the Rye is doing what it should be clicked into place for me and I was like, no, they need to be putting the bell jar on syllabuses instead. Or at least the syllabi should feature both the bell jar and Catcher in the Rye to give you both of those those perspectives. But yes, don’t read Catcher in the Rye. I hate it instead read The Bell Jar.

Traci Thomas 40:19
I hate it to my theory about hitting it though. So you just blew my theory out of the water. People who hate it read it when they were older, because I read it in my 20s. And I was like, I don’t care about this. But like a lot of people who read in high school are like I love this book because they like it saw something in them. But you have a hateable book for all ages. So thank you. I mean,

Minda Honey 40:41
I hated most of the books we read in high school. So until we

Traci Thomas 40:45
talk about the awakening, Oh, God. I hated the awakening, too. We read that in high school. And I was like, why am I here? Like, this is a waste of my life. What kind of reader would you say that you are?

Minda Honey 41:02
I don’t know that I can sum it up in one word, but I am the type of person who buys like, probably 40 to 50 books a year. Um, maybe more than that, because I definitely buy more books per year than I read. And at this point, I’m reading about 30 to 50 books a year. So the year before the pandemic, I was like at a friend’s house around Christmas time. And she told me that every year, her family does like this reading challenge. And at the beginning of the year, you set your reading goal for the year. And if you hit it at the end of the year, her the husband, the sons, they all get like a Barnes and Noble book card and they all get to like go buy books. And I was like, oh dang, can I be Can I do this. And I was like, Wait, can all of our friends do this. So I set up this group, and the group has like 20 to 80 people in in any given year, there used to be like a buy in. And we would like raffle off the gift cards at the end. But after the pandemic, we got rid of that my sister is a financial analyst. So she created this really great dashboard. So every time you read a book, you log it, and then we have all this demographic data. So you can also make sure not that this is a problem for me. But if it’s a problem for you, you make sure you’re not just reading a bunch of straight white dudes. So it actually does a breakdown of the demographics of the people. You’re reading genres, whether you’re doing audio book, physical book, and you can start the book, put notes. So then you have your individual dashboard. And you also have the collective dashboard as well. So that probably actually says a lot about who I am.

Traci Thomas 42:34
You and I are very similar. I built a spreadsheet that I use for myself, it’s my reading tracker. But now for people who join the stacks pack, it’s like one of the big perks on the Patreon is that you’ve got access to the reading tracker. And it has like country of origin, original language, like all of that stuff. And then it also has like publisher imprint, like page number, audio, all of that. And it is my favorite thing. When I finish a book, I finish if I get three is like I immediately gone to the spreadsheet. And I’m like, did it mail into the database? How many books and I have it set up by year. But then I also have the first page is total since I started keeping every book I’ve read since 2016. That’s incredible. And it’s like, bro, it’s so you’re speaking my language.

Minda Honey 43:22
And I love the year over year data like oh, now that I have like four years worth of data, I can see July is always going to be a light reading month. That’s exactly right.

Traci Thomas 43:30
And I don’t even track how many books come in. So I know like I get a ton of books in November in December because all the publishers leave in December. So they send everything at the end of the year for like the first three months of the next year. So I’m like, okay, clear the shelves because there’s a lot coming in or like, whatever I have, I just love it. It like makes my reading life feel more purposeful. But I’m glad that you can relate because a lot of people are like, I don’t track my reading. I don’t care. This is too intense.

Minda Honey 44:03
On my I’m not on the apps right now. But when I’m on the dating apps, that’s one of the things I share about my self

Traci Thomas 44:09
because I try my reading. Yeah, cuz

Minda Honey 44:11
I think these dues see my face. And they think like, ooh, like, they just make assumptions of what type of person I am. I’m like, No, I need you to know. I read like two books a year and I collect the data we’ll be tracking.

Traci Thomas 44:23
Yeah. And I will be letting you know about that sounds like-

Minda Honey 44:27
That sounds like the type of person you don’t want to be having a lot of conversations with. Don’t swipe on.

Traci Thomas 44:32
Go ahead and swipe the other way. What are you currently reading?

Minda Honey 44:37
Oh, gosh, I’m in the middle of r&d Matthew’s bread and circus. I’m reading Cydia Hartman’s lose your mother. I went to Senegal at the end of last year beginning of this year. And so one of the experiences that I had is because I am black, and Filipino is that even in Senegal even survived pounded by other white people, like I still stood out, you know. And I still garnered like undue attention in specific ways. And so that had me kind of like thinking about the like the symbol that Africa becomes in your mind when you’re a black American and then what the actual experience is, and so do Hartman beat me to those thoughts and wrote an exceptional book about it and my family’s going to the Philippines at the end beginning of this year, so it’s going to be like this. Yeah, like Yeah, starting the year in the fatherland, ending it in the motherland, you know, Book Three loading.

Traci Thomas 45:39
Wait, what’s book two?

Minda Honey 45:40
Oh, you know, Book Two, I think is going to be an essay collection on like naming and claiming yourself. I get a lot of people who asked me if honey is my real last name. And like I was on a date with some dude, he asked me that, and I was just kind of like when you are black, and you’re a woman in America, like what is real about a last name? So as a last name that like I choose versus one that’s like inherited by someone who enslaved my ancestors or one that was obtained through marriage? Is that more real are more relevant to who I am as a person? I would say no, I would say.

Traci Thomas 46:18
Interesting. Are there any books that are coming out or just on your shelves that you’re really looking forward to reading?

Minda Honey 46:25
Oh, you know, right now I’ve got my microphone sitting on top of the the love songs of web boy, which has been out for a while that’s such a big book. It’s a great book so I hear but I’m the author is coming to speak here in Louisville in a couple of months. So I’m like I gotta I gotta get into this book. I gotta get into it now. So I think that that’s finally going to like push me to do it and then oh my gosh, let me pull up my my copiers my sheets my to buy my book to buy list of books because yeah, I just I all the time I sit down and I like I do the math on it like oh, if I ever get a ton of money I’m gonna buy every single one of these books. Oh, Red State out. Her instagram name is Red State Blue State but I think it’s like Margo Stein’s her memoir. brutalities is coming out in October. Britney Spears is also putting out a memoir and unfortunately, it’s

Traci Thomas 47:25
Spears Kerry Washington and Jada Pinkett all have books coming out in September October.

Minda Honey 47:31
It’s a good year for black women.

Traci Thomas 47:34
And Britney.

Minda Honey 47:40
Please do not spread the rumor that I consider Britney Spears a Black woman.

Traci Thomas 47:46
Celebrities we love, and Black women. Yeah, okay, so you mentioned that a friend of yours or coworker recommended the poetry the hem felt poetry that you liked? Who do you take book recommendations from? How do you get book recommendations? Do you use newspapers social media friends? Like What? What? Who are your go twos?

Minda Honey 48:06
Oh, yeah, I’m absolutely at the point my writing career where you know, I have so many writer friends that every year like I’m just like, buying people’s books, buying friends books. My sister, the One who created the dashboard also does a lot of reading. She’s at a book club. So she actually put me on to the perfect find. When Williams Tia Williams-

Traci Thomas 48:31
She has a new book coming out next year.

Minda Honey 48:33
Oh, good. Because I have read what was her other books seven year

Traci Thomas 48:37
Seven, seven days in June, seven days in June.

Minda Honey 48:40
And I liked it. But the perfect find was incredible. I loved it so much. And I also was like, at that moment in my life dating like a significantly younger man. So my sister was like, this book. It did not in the same way.

Traci Thomas 48:57
I haven’t read the perfect fine. Oh, I have read seven days in June. And I really liked that and I’m really excited. The next one is called something the character’s name is like Ricky. I don’t know the title has the word Ricky in it anyways, and then

Minda Honey 49:09
when you’re reading books and authors reference other books that’s like, oh, gosh, let me like yeah, by the time I finished reading a Roski book, or Hanif abdurraqib book. I have such a reading list for myself.

Traci Thomas 49:22
Yes. Oh my god. Anything Hanif puts on the internet. Like if it’s like a song and like an album, whatever. I’m like, Oh, God, I guess I gotta buy this thing now like that’s I gotta go do this. He’s got just like such impeccable taste in exquisite Yeah. What’s a book that you like to recommend to people

Minda Honey 49:41
I have been super into the perfectionist’s guide to losing control.

Traci Thomas 49:47
This sounds like a me book. And I feel like I need I’m like shifting in my chair. Tell me about it.

Minda Honey 49:53
I feel like the second half of the title should be in gain power. Because from the time Don’t let it currently currently have like, they’re gonna take my recommendation and change it. But from its title, you think it’s gonna be a book on how to how to fix your perfectionism. But the author who’s like a psychologist is like, perfectionism is not a pathology, like, it’s, it’s just like a default personality, like you can change who you are. But just like any other personality traits, there are adaptive and maladaptive aspects of it. So what I can help you do is recognize when your perfectionism is being maladaptive, or different ways to use your perfectionism in adaptive ways. And so she categorizes. There’s like four different types of perfectionist. So you take it and you figure out what type of perfectionist you are. And then she walks you through the specifics of that, like that type of perfectionism. And she also points out that, like, when we see these sorts of traits and men, they’re celebrated, like, nobody’s trying to tell Steve Jobs to be less of a perfectionist, right? So it’s only women. And so I have recommended that to his, you know, perfectionist type women, we can like travel in packs. So I’ve recommended this book to so many of my friends, it’s almost all of it’s underlined. And it just really brought a lot of relief to me. And like, also made me think about different things in my life kind of differently, and gave me just some tools for some of the like, ways that my perfectionism does like manifest, and but not best ways.

Traci Thomas 51:33
Interesting. That sounds really good. I feel like I need I need this book. Spoiler alert, I’m a perfectionist.

Minda Honey 51:42
It’s one of those books you recommend to a friend and then your friend, like text you live updates as they’re real, because

Traci Thomas 51:49
That’s exchanged numbers. Do you set reading goals? Or are there things that you wish were different about your reading life?

Minda Honey 51:56
Yeah, as part of the like, book track, we call it book Social. So it’s part of book Social, you know, we do set a goal. And we say you’re not like in competition with anybody but yourself. So I’m really just trying to read more books than I did the previous year. And then I’ll also give myself grace, like, the first year we did it, I think I read like 20 Something books, but the year before that, I had maybe read like 10 books. So I was like, This is an incredible leap. And then, you know, I read like, 56 books, but then I had like, a big drop the next year. And it was like, Oh, wow, because you were writing your book. So, you know, just being like, realistic about some of the limitations. But yeah, I just, you know, I really do want to be I think, like 30 or more books per year, just because I buy so many books. And I think as a writer, and as someone who leads writing workshops, like it’s also my responsibility to keep up with like the literary landscape.

Traci Thomas 52:50
Yeah, totally. Are there any genres that you avoid?

Minda Honey 52:55
Yeah, those World War books, war books, in general, like the like, I just like one the types of authors that usually write those books are usually the types of people I would be avoiding in real life. And so I just don’t really want their framing or list.

Traci Thomas 53:16
What’s your ideal reading setup? Where are you time of day, beverage, snacks, temperature, music, location, all that stuff.

Minda Honey 53:26
I like to read in bed. And it’s really annoying, because when I sleep, I sleep on like my left side, and that side like faces towards my lamp. But for some reason, when I’m reading in bed, I really want to like lay on my right side while I read, like, away from my lamp and like causes shadows. And so I try to like flip it because like, I need obviously spent a lot of time on the other side because that’s the side I sleep on. But I just get so agitated. I felt like I can’t even focus on the words that I’m trying to read. I don’t know why don’t just move my lamp.

Traci Thomas 54:01
Yes, that was my solution.

Minda Honey 54:03
But yeah, I like to read in bed all snuggled up. If it’s during the day, I’ll try to read, you know, on my couch, if I’m like out and about, like if I’m traveling, then that’s when I take my e reader and try to get some reading done that way. But you know, I listened to a lot of audiobooks. I listen. I like to listen to self help type books on audio. But I’ve also gotten to the place where I can listen to, you know, essays and novels on audio now too. So yeah.

Traci Thomas 54:33
What about snacks and beverages while reading- any?

Minda Honey 54:36
No because I’m always afraid of like getting grease and food and stuff on. Like I told you I’ve gifted the Destiny Hemphill book to a couple of people and one of those people we had red light because it’s poetry so it’s quick read. We’d read the first section together in a coffee shop. And a notice like he I don’t know if you’d like had some chips or something like that. He left these kind of like fingerprints on On the pages, but they were very light like you wouldn’t know they were there unless you were me. But when I gifted him a copy of the book, like I swapped I swapped out the copies-

Traci Thomas 55:15
The old copy I hope he’s listening to this so he knows he got the dingy coffee.

Minda Honey 55:21
He’s not gonna care. He’s also a person who is the type of person who didn’t. Well, yeah, poets, you know, poets there. I know.

Traci Thomas 55:28
Yeah. So yeah, Traci fingers.

Minda Honey 55:32
So yeah, no, I’m not eating snacks while reading some awesome water up some tea.

Traci Thomas 55:38
Okay. You’re killing me here. But do you have a favorite bookstore?

Minda Honey 55:44
I you know, right now in Louisville. I’m partnering with foxing books, and so it’s a bookmobile, but their brick and mortar store is opening in October, so I’m super excited for them. Yeah. And they’re gonna pop up at all of my events. My book launch party is going to be at treble bar, which is a woman owned bourbon bar that my friends own. And so and I have a cocktail on the list on their menu.

Traci Thomas 56:08
So there’s the Minda Honey, or what’s it called?

Minda Honey 56:11
It’s called The Storyteller. And it says about it, like, you know, named a name for one of our favorite storytellers book out in October. Buy it here.

Traci Thomas 56:20
What? What is your pub day?

Minda Honey 56:22
It’s October 1.

Traci Thomas 56:24
Okay, so everyone, as you’re listening, the book is out. Just to be clear, because this comes out the first week of October, but we’re recording this in September. Anyways. It’s our people. You get it? So don’t get the bug. Yeah, get the book and then get a cocktail if you’re a loser.

Minda Honey 56:41
So go get the get The Storyteller. But yeah, they’re gonna host the launch party. And then foxing books is gonna like, be on sites like yeah, person. So excited about how.

Traci Thomas 56:52
What’s the last book that made you laugh?

Minda Honey 56:55
Oh, gosh. So I read Hannah puh tardes. We are too many witches about her husband. cheating on her with her best friend. And funny.

Traci Thomas 57:08
Well, well, let’s Yes. She teaches at you.

Minda Honey 57:12
Okay, so there’s that Kentucky connection. And then she’s also a writer, and they all met while her and her friend were doing their MFA. So there’s that just kind of like that underwriting writer drama. And then I also read Hayley Jacobson’s old enough. And that is probably like the most Gen Z coded book I’ve ever read. But like, in the best way possible. So there was a lot of humor in the book in general, but there was just like, also a lot of humor for me to laugh at myself. Like, oh my gosh.

Traci Thomas 57:43
Yeah, yeah. What about the last book that made you cry?

Minda Honey 57:47
Oh, well, you know, I read Silas houses southern most. I listened to that actually on audiobook as I was like driving down to Nashville. And it’s such a beautiful, but it’s about this Pentecostal preacher. He’s like, in a very rural part of Kentucky, who has a gay brother that he kind of like casts out of his life at some point. And then has this like revelation about how wrong this is, you know, and decides to leave his wife who’s like, very rigid, and her belief system, but because he is a man who’s a single man, and he’s going against, like, the culture of his community, he doesn’t really have any chance of getting custody of his son. So he takes a son and they go to like, Key West. And so there’s obviously a lot of complications, like you know, ethical complications, moral complications, and, and someone like kidnapping a child. And then just also the ways that these conversations around like, homophobia and bigotry unfold because we’re almost seeing this man positioned as the hero because he’s had this awakening, but then when he finally tracks down his brother, his brother’s like, I don’t know if I can forgive you for for what you did, because why wasn’t like knowing me and loving me. Enough, you know. And also, the man very quickly realizes the limitations like even though he’s had this awakening, there are still these ways in which like, he is bigoted, and he has these shortcomings. So it’s just like this really complicated book and your heart just kind of like hurts for this man and like hurts for his son hurts for his brother, and makes you want to visit Key West. Sounds so good. Well, Silas house also wrote the music video for the Tyler Childers, new music video about the two gay men who are coal miners. And like they fell in love and they Oh my god, like watch the music video. It will make me cry. But they fall in love and they leave and then like one like I guess he dies from like black lung or whatever. And it was it was so yeah, so Silas house and his husband worked and wrote on that. So that’ll give you a little bit. A little taste of what’s in store for you with Southern most.

Traci Thomas 1:00:03
Are there any books that you are embarrassed that you still have not read yet?

Minda Honey 1:00:09
Oh my gosh, I mean, yeah, anything. Anything that Toni Morrison has written or James Baldwin has written like, I’m like, I need to read their complete cannons.

Traci Thomas 1:00:19
Yeah. Have you read tar baby before?

Minda Honey 1:00:22
I have not read Tar Baby before.

Traci Thomas 1:00:23
Oh good, so we’re both gonna be noobs. Okay, I’m excited. Do you have a problematic favorite book,

Minda Honey 1:00:29
I will say that there are authors that have been cancelled, whose books that I would not buy today, but have bought prior to the cancellation, and then just have not been able to bring myself to, like expunge those books from my collection. And those will be in Your Name one. I’m not gonna date I’m gonna use date. It’s like, that’s yeah, it’s kind of like, you know, it’s like being a Kanye fan.

Traci Thomas 1:00:55
It’s like, you know, we talked about it.

Minda Honey 1:00:58
Yeah, I would never buy a Kanye album today. I’m not going to a Kanye concert. But you know, if if I go someplace, and they’re playing high school dropout, I’m a rap along under my breath. So yeah, I’m working through it. I know. It’s not right. It’s a complicated person.

Traci Thomas 1:01:14
No, it’s not. It’s not not right. We our book club pick for September, which you might have heard yet is monsters, the fans dilemma, which is all Yes, seeing a fan of monster as artists and monsters. It’s meant and actually, that book brought me back to listening to Kanye. Oh, really, because I just got like his stain for me like the thing that I talked about some episodes, I won’t spend a lot time on this. But the thing that the things that he has done wrong, don’t stay in the music for me that I can’t listen to his new stuff, because I can’t hear it without thinking of him at that time. But like, I can listen to 808 and heartbreaks, no problem, because that music isn’t stained for me. Like his crimes are like what he’s done wrong and the things that you said, and the ways that he’s been an asshole. Don’t show up in the music for me. Whereas like, I can’t, I couldn’t watch a Woody Allen movie. Right, right show up in his work.

Minda Honey 1:02:07
But anyways, I’m gonna read that Monsters book.

Traci Thomas 1:02:11
It’s really good. I loved it. Um, if you could require the current president of the United States to read one book, what would it be?

Minda Honey 1:02:19
Is it selfish if I say I want Joe Biden to read my book? No, no, we’ve already established that it’s changing the hearts and minds of white America. So if Joe Biden can read the heartbreak years, and just really like, open his eyes to the anti blackness, that we’re out here enduring, implement these policies that are going to like have significant bearing on like, the happiness and well being of black folks for generations, that you know, I’ve really, I’ve really done what I’ve set out to do.

Traci Thomas 1:02:49
And his son Hunter Biden is definitely a fuck boy. So I feel like you know, like, I feel like, it’ll be a chance for him to see what Hunter has wrought, perhaps. Not directly. I don’t want people to think that you had a relationship with undermining relationships.

Minda Honey 1:03:07
I would have definitely opened with that.

Traci Thomas 1:03:09
Yeah, that would have been the memoir, the entire memoir.

Minda Honey 1:03:12
Especially right now. Absolutely.

Traci Thomas 1:03:16
A lot of book sales on that one. If you had the I used to date. I used to date Hunter Biden and he used to be wild boy with me you would have the book. All right, everybody. This has been a conversation with Minda honey whose new book the heartbreak years is out. Now. You can get it wherever you get your books. Do you read the audiobook? I do read the audiobook. Okay. You can listen to men to read the audiobook as well. And Minda will be back on October 25 For our discussion, which will have lots of spoilers. It’s hard baby. So read the book with us in Minda. Thank you so much for being here.

Minda Honey 1:03:50
Thank you so much for having me. Traci. This was delightful.

Traci Thomas 1:03:53
So fun. And everyone else we will see you in the Stacks.

All right, y’all. That does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening and thank you Minda Honey for joining the show. I’d also like to say thank you to Suzanne Williams for helping to make this conversation possible. Remember, Minda will be returning to the show on October 25th for our book club discussion of Tar Baby by Toni Morrison. If you love the show and want insight access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks and join the stacks pack. Make sure you’re subscribed to the stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you’re listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify be sure to leave us a rating and a review. For more from the stacks follow us on social media. We are at the stackspod on Instagram threads and tik tok and we’re at the stacks pod underscore on Twitter and you can always check out our website the stackspodcast.com This episode of the stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Lauren Tyree. Our graphic designer is Robin MacWrite.The Stacks is created and produced by me Traci Thomas.

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