Ep. 246 The Best Books of 2022 with Andrew Limbong – Transcript

NPR Arts Desk reporter and Book of the Day podcast host Andrew Limbong joins The Stacks to count down his five favorite books of 2022. Traci shares her own list, making it our official top ten of the year. We also get into the trends we saw throughout 2022, and what we’re looking forward to in 2023.

The Stacks Book Club selection for December is True Biz by Sarah Nović. We will discuss the book on December 28th with Greta Johnsen.


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*Due to the nature of advertising placement, these timestamps are not 100% accurate.*

Traci Thomas 0:09
Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I’m your host Traci Thomas and it is time for our annual best books of the year episode. This year we are joined by Andrew Limbong, who is the host of the wonderful NPR podcast Book of the Day. He hails from Brooklyn and is also one of NPR arts desk reporters covering all things arts and culture. Andrew is here to share his top five books of 2022 and I’ll be revealing my picks as well. And in the end, we’ll have our final top 10 books of 2022. To listen to us unpack our favorites share trends we saw in 2022, and things we’re looking forward to in 2023. Don’t forget our December book club selection is True Biz by Sarah Novic. We will be discussing the book on Wednesday, December 28. With Greta Johnsen. Everything we talked about on each episode of The Stacks can be found in the link in the shownotes. And if you love the show and want more of it head to patreon.com/thestacks to join the stacks pack. The Stacks is an independent podcast, which means I rely on listeners like you to make the show possible week in and week out. You still have a few more weeks to get the stacks reading tracker, we’re going to be sharing that with folks all the way until January 31 2023. So if you want a place to track all of your reading, have it be completely customizable and private, so you don’t have to worry about other people judging your star ratings, head to patreon.com/thestacks to join the stacks pack. Get your tracker and other awesome perks like bonus episodes or virtual book club or discord discounts on merch. All that good stuff. I’d like to take a quick second to give a shout out to our newest member of the stacks pack. Megan Burke Cobian. And thank you, of course, every single member of the stacks pack. Alright, now it’s time for the best books of 2022 with Andrew Limbong.

All right, everybody. I am so excited. Today I am joined by Andrew Limbong who is the host of NPR book of the day podcast I brought in the big guy. Andrew has a book of every single day. So if he doesn’t know the best books of the year, who does, Andrew, welcome to the sack.

Andrew Limbong 2:15
Hey, what’s up? What’s up? What’s up, man? How you doing, Traci?

Traci Thomas 2:17
I’m good. I’m so glad you’re here. Let me give people just a quick- set some expectations around today’s episode. This is I think our fifth year doing this, which means Andrew and I are gonna go back and forth. We each have picked five of our favorite books of this year, we’re going to share them with you. We don’t know each other’s picks, we’re gonna have a good time. These are our favorite books of the year. So if they’re not your favorite books of the year, that’s okay. These are just what Andrew and I love. So with that being said, Andrew, will you just tell the people a little bit about yourself? And I’d love to know a little bit about how book of the day came to you?

Andrew Limbong 2:54
Yes. So I started at NPR for a minute. I started as an intern on all things considered back in, like 2011. I’ve one of the rare people that have had has had the great, great luck of like staying in a decent like place of employment for a decent amount of time and media. And so yeah, I was at all things considered. And then I worked at a show called Tell Me More, which was a daily talk show that was the place where I really cut my teeth. And then that show got canceled in 2014 1320 13 2014, somewhere around there. And then I started working at what’s now called the culture desk, first as a producer. And then I eventually worked my way up to become a reporter. And yeah, so the book that a podcast is interesting, it is a compendium of the author interviews that all the hosts in the building do. And so they do, like, I’m not I’m not I’m not like trying to say that. It’s hard to keep track of all the author interviews that we do in this building. And so and it’s like, um, you know, I’ll be like, looking at our backgrounds like, oh, we talked to them, oh, well, we had them on. One was, you know what I mean, and it’s just like, easy, you know, easy to miss. And so we’ve been trying to think about how to how to do a sustainable podcast on books at NPR for a while, and I think this was the best way to do it. And so like, it is a every week, every day of the week, you get a different host interview from a different book, sometimes, you know, it’ll be like, the the latest releases, you know, like the buzzy books of the day. My favorite episodes are when we go back into the archives, right? Like, for whatever reason, will dig back into like an interview from the 90s or an interview made, you know what I mean? Because I find those interviews so illuminating and like I was about to say, like, I was like, older, you know, I was I’m aging ageing. You know that adage of like, history rhyming, right? Like things sort of just like repeat and they you on the one hand, it’s like illuminating. It’s like, Oh, we’ve been here before and like this is how this was handled. But then on the other hand, it’s like, bro, we’re still not over this. We’re still, you know what I mean? Right? But we’ve been at this for decades and No, no, no, no. And so yeah, those are my favorite interviews. I think.

Traci Thomas 5:12
I love that. How did it how did you get to be the person who hosts the show?

Andrew Limbong 5:17
So when the producers were dumping stuff up around, like, you know, getting a proof of concept together, I just had was in like, the right place at the right time to be there, like, Hey, can you just like, throw some tracks on these real quick to see if it sounds good. And I was like, Okay. And then as as that process kept going, right, so, like one pilot or another pilot, and I, as they did more, I kept, like, putting more of my own like, voice Enos onto the coffee, and they seemed to like it enough that I got the gig.

Traci Thomas 5:49
I love that. And are you or have you always been a book person?

Andrew Limbong 5:55
So my original plan was to be a English professor.

Traci Thomas 5:59
Oh, my gosh, that was Yeah. So, the answer is yes.

Andrew Limbong 6:02
I mean, I think of like, what he’s like, always there was like, you know, I did play Playstation a lot as a kid. And my bout my mom had to, like, drag me into my room and like, forced me to read you know what I mean? But yeah, the whole goal was to be a an English professor, specifically, I wanted to be like, the Faulkner scholar, you know? Yeah. Like, I was like, I want to be, you know, the preeminent William Faulkner scholar of growth. Right. You know, the, the pay for that is?

Traci Thomas 6:35
Can’t be great.

Andrew Limbong 6:35
Yeah, the market, the market for foster scholars not popping off these days.

Traci Thomas 6:41
Yeah, I would imagine that it’s not the same. It’s like, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what marketing is popping off. But I know it’s not the Faulkers of the world. And what kind of reader like how would you describe your reading tastes so people can kind of understand as you pick your top five books, like, what is it about a book that that speaks to you? Or what do you love about what makes a book something that you love?

Andrew Limbong 7:05
You know, what’s funny, I was thinking about what my tastes usually are. And I’m looking at my list that I have this this year, generally speaking, my tastes and books, I’m actually I’ll be like, my taste in like, movies, TV shows, books, you know, are are like, someone is sad. They go on, they go on a journey thinking that that’ll fix it. And then it doesn’t mean that’s like the general. Like, I love this. Yeah, someone was like, Oh, I’m bummed out. Let me let me try this dumbass thing. And then you’re like, oh, that’s gonna fix it. I wonder why not? You know what, I didn’t do any of the bother doing any internal work to fix it whatsoever.

Traci Thomas 7:46
I love that. That’s a genre that I’m a little bit into. I can appreciate I love a sad moment when you just said sad. I was like, great. We were gonna be able to pull this some years at people who are like, I love a romance. And I’m like, we’re gonna have nothing to talk about for the next hour. So yeah, not that I don’t love romance. I just love all things sad. Like all my favorite romances are like, distressed woman like having a terrible time at life. And then maybe this relationship will fix it. Like, you know, I love a happy ending every once in a while. But if it’s like happy go lucky woman like just looking for love. I’m like, No, thank you. Yeah. And so in general in 2022 Did you have any like thoughts about this year in books, anything that stuck out to you good or bad about the year?

Andrew Limbong 8:32
So I got a shout out the like, NPR has this thing called books we love right, which is like a sort of compendium of like, yeah, this year. It’s like 400 400 Yeah, it’s it’s crazy. And I was just like, looking at that and like listening to a lot of the author interviews that we’ve done. We there’s there’s been a lot of like, generational family books. I feel like this year, there’s been a lot of that stuff about like, you know, oh, my dad screwed me up. And then like, the dad be like, Oh, my grandma really, really did a number on me. Just find out about like, yeah, I feel like that’s been a big thing this year. From from like a taste. You know, just like looking at books, media. I don’t know about you. I feel like is there no, at least on the fiction side? Because I feel like on the nonfiction side, there’s like a clear heater of the year, which we may or may not be on your list who I’m curious what

Traci Thomas 9:27
I’m curious what okay, we’ll save it. Yeah, if I hit it, but

Andrew Limbong 9:31
I feel like there’s no like heater on the in the fiction world.

Traci Thomas 9:35
Right. Yeah. So my so my big takeaway from this year and I hate to be an asshole, but it’s part of who I am. I thought this was not a great year. It’s a down year. Yeah. And I think that like part of the reason that the NPR list is 400 Books was because it was sort of just like, every book was equally like good, but there weren’t as many standouts and so I feel like it was harder to like narrow down a list. But also the imperialist has been growing. and growing, I went back and looked at it was like 215 books like five years ago. And now it’s like 406 books. I was like, wow. But I do think that there’s like something. I just think it’s sort of like a, like, the books are all good, but nothing felt like a huge standout to me except for I do have one nonfiction book that I thought was above and beyond. And I’m wondering if this is the book that you’re thinking of. So we’ll see.

Andrew Limbong 10:24
I’m gonna write it down. And then we’ll, we’ll

Traci Thomas 10:27
We’ll reveal. But yeah, it was sort of like, especially on the fiction side for me, like, I’m not a huge fiction person. I do prefer nonfiction. But I didn’t find I only found one fiction book this year that I really loved. And that was a sad for me. But yeah, sort of a, like a solid year, but not an exemplary year, if you will.

Andrew Limbong 10:48
It’s like, you know how, like, last year, like, there’s a I’m in Baltimore. And like, I go to a handful of bookstores, and they all had like, like, D transition baby like on the shelf. You know what I mean? Like, that was like the thing on the special and like, I feel like there’s an you know, maybe this isn’t indicative of anything other than just like bookstores and have different tastes, but I feel like there was no like one common book that I’ve seen. Yeah, the stores that just have like the one book that they’re trying to, you know,

Traci Thomas 11:12
yeah, like no consensus. I agree. And D transition baby did make our top 10. Last year, I

Andrew Limbong 11:18
remember, it was the one that was like on all of your lists, right?

Traci Thomas 11:21
Or yeah, all three of us. Yeah, all three of us agreed that it was like the book that we all loved. Yeah, I do think there’s no consensus. I mean, New York Times they released their, you know, top 10 books this year. And it was so interesting, because I don’t think any of their top 10 books were finalists for the National Book Award this year, which is so rare, like that just shows there’s just no consensus, and everyone was sort of like, pulling not that those two organizations are like the only two but there’s some overlap. Like last year. I know. Love Songs of WEB DuBois was on there. I’m pretty sure Clint Smith’s book was on both of those. Like, there’s usually some consensus about like, good books, but this year feels like who knows. So that’s gonna be really fun for our list, because Oh, no.

Andrew Limbong 12:09
No, do you think that is because it’s a down year? Or is that? Like, I wonder how

Traci Thomas 12:14
is it down here, but I also think that the New York Times is obsessed with being like a kingmaker. I, I don’t I don’t know this to be true. But if their list this year felt like we’re gonna pick our own books, and like, see how many people buy them and love them and like, show how powerful we are like, it just really felt like one of those lists to me not to shit on any of those books. But just like the way that it was so out of left field, I felt like their list this year, usually I have a sense. And when I see their list, I’m like, Yeah, sure. And this year, I was like, what is happening?

Andrew Limbong 12:48
And I think a lot of people felt that way. Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely.

Traci Thomas 12:51
So I don’t know. I think it’s a combination of maybe not having like clear favorites. And also the New York Times New York Times. As they are wanting to do, yeah, I’m coming for you times coming. We’re coming. We’re coming. Watch out. I’m ready to fight. Are you ready to do this? Yeah. Okay, I’m gonna let you start because you’re a guest. So why don’t you tell me your first and this is not in any order. Everyone. This is just, we’re going one for one.

Andrew Limbong 13:17
I will say I didn’t tell my my last one. I’ll say my last one. Because that one’s like the one with the number one with a bullet in my. Okay.

Traci Thomas 13:23
Sorry. And I’ll do my number one. I’ll do my number one also. Okay. Yeah.

Andrew Limbong 13:27
All right. Yeah. So my first every everything else, by the way is like jumbled around. So it’s not ranked. Yeah, I think the first book I’ll pick is lap Bona by attesa. Mosh bag. Okay. Yeah, it’s a it’s about like a little peasant boy, from Indy poor, fictional medieval village of like, fauna, is born in Marijke, finds his way sort of adopted into the royal family of the village. It is, I know, Mosh fake heads probably know her from a year of rest and relaxation. For my money, so it’s better. I think it’s, I think it’s more interested, like the word the word that literally like the world is bigger, like, the cast of characters is bigger, right? You get you get more textures from the different, you know, families and people and players in the game. And it’s also her like, this part is, like, I think been hit on a lot. But it makes sense. It’s like she’s, she’s firing on all cylinders and her grossness writing, you know, and I think reading reading some reviews, it was too a bit too much for people. And I think you know, there was that one big New York mag article of battery that came out in the middle of the year. But I just found it so funny, like her gross out writing it was. I don’t I don’t it wasn’t like, it wasn’t gratuitous, right. It wasn’t like I was watching saw or something like that. But it was like it reminds me of like, you know how sometimes they’re like when Tarantino like Quentin Tarantino, like shoots like food, and then they’ll be Like when like like a fork goes into like the cake. You can feel that. Right? Yeah. Do you get that like you get the goosebumps

Traci Thomas 15:07
really sensory? Grotesque a little bit? Yes.

Andrew Limbong 15:10
That’s what that that’s what reading this book reminds me of?

Traci Thomas 15:13
Oh my god, I love that description. Yeah, it’s and so ever read any of her books? Oh, really? No, I that gross is not for me. And I feel like I’ve heard that it’s like gross and weird and I’m not a super weird reader.

Andrew Limbong 15:28
Yeah. No, I think yeah, I’m curious what people you know, cuz she’s like, she’s like Loki, booktalk famous for a certain type of person. And I haven’t it’s been interesting when when the book came out, I thought I’d see more about it from that crowd. But I don’t know if like my algorithm has, like, led me away to it. But I haven’t seen that much chatter about it on on the on the book talk, you know, realm that, you know, where’s my year of rest and relaxation, like proudly on their sleeve? Which is it? Yeah, it’s an interesting sort of reaction to it.

Traci Thomas 16:00
I have a theory about book talk that the book has to have come out in paperback.

Andrew Limbong 16:05
Oh, uh huh.

Traci Thomas 16:06
That’s, I feel like I feel like book talk is like, late on books. Like, it’s so rare that they’re like, really up on a brand new book. And that’s why it’s like, a lot like book like CRC or whatever. It’s like, it’s been out for a while you can get it in paperback. It’s more accessible. You’re not spending $35 on it. You’re spending like a team. And I feel like there’s something about it having been in the zeitgeist a little bit. And then tick tock book talk picks it up and it like goes viral. So maybe it’s coming?

Andrew Limbong 16:33
Yeah, that’s interesting. I do wonder if there’s been, I’d love to hear from a publicist, if there’s been an increase in like, arc spending on booktalk creators, you know what I mean?

Traci Thomas 16:42
Oh, like sending arcs that way. Yeah, definitely know that they do a lot more marketing in that direction. Because I, I am in the Instagram space. And I have seen a lot more like link to your book talk. And like that kind of stuff. And I know that they are spending money over there. There was like some New York Times article about book talk. I don’t know I have a lot that we should do a whole episode on book talk, because I have a lot of questions and thoughts about it. But

Andrew Limbong 17:05
as like as like a Bookstagram person, you’re like, I feel like you’re like smoking a cigar like I’ve been here before.

Traci Thomas 17:10
Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly how I feel. I’m like, I’m an old had been in the streets pushing books. But I do feel like Instagram is much more new books and books. Hawk is much more older backless titles like new backless but not like, you know, it’s like they were obsessed with a little life. I’m like, Yeah, I read that, like, seven years ago. Yeah. Like Been there. Done that. cried over Jude everybody or not now. Yeah.

Andrew Limbong 17:34
Give me like that credit is like just turned like 22. And like, I are now emotionally ready to be sad. I mean, like, I don’t know if I’m even still emotionally ready to handle that book again.

Traci Thomas 17:42
Have you read it?

Andrew Limbong 17:42
I have complicated feelings about it. So do

Traci Thomas 17:46
I so many, we should do a whole episode on that, too. Okay, I’m gonna go with my first pick. Well, not first pick. But just the first book I’m sharing. I’m gonna go with his name is George Floyd, by Robert Samuels and Toluse ordinary, but oluwo nerdy Bah, I was super not wanting to read this book at all, when I saw it, because I was like, this is going to be some fucking fake Black Lives Matter power grab bullshit, coming from these journalists from the Washington Post, whatever. The book is so beautifully done. It’s so detailed. I keep referring to it as the presidential treatment, but they give George Floyd the Presidential treatment. They dig into His family history, they trace his family line back into slavery. They take like the many different facets of his life like housing, obviously, incarceration, education, and they tie his experiences to like the greater structures and systems in place in America. And they really like make his put his life in perspective, and make it make sense how someone that none of us knew could become such a catalyst for so many people. And they, they render him so beautifully. Like I genuinely was upset when he was killed. Because I was like, I’m really sad. We’re not gonna get more of this person in this story. Like I missed him. I longed for him in a way that I was not expecting at all. And I think that in addition to the actual like writing, and storytelling being really well done, and they interviewed like, 400 people, and they talked to his family and his friends and his, you know, high school football coach. And they also do a similar thing with Derek Chauvin, where they dig into His family history and his history becoming a police officer and, and hit like, you know, how he was trained and all of this stuff. But in addition to like, all of that, for them to push back against, I think a lot of people’s preconceived notions about what the book would be like how I was very apprehensive about it. They really like proved me wrong in a way that I was like, I respect this book so much, because that was really hard to do, and I really didn’t want to read this. So I was really taken by this book. I’m so glad it exists for people who have read invisible child by Andrea Elliot. It is a similar kind of book where they use George Floyd as sort of like the center, but they explore all these different American systems. And it’s just, it’s really well done.

Andrew Limbong 20:10
Yeah, I’m glad to see I haven’t read it because I, now now no longer was, like, apprehensive about, yeah, you know that there’s something like, uncomfortable to me about like, when sometimes people become like, symbols for a greater thing. And then bias by you know, that way they get, like, kind of like dehumanized. And it feels there’s something like icky, I don’t know. Yeah, totally get like, so legally, you know, squeaked out about it. But it’s nice to know that this, I feel like this. I’m hearing that this does the opposite of that.

Traci Thomas 20:38
Yeah, I literally, the only reason I picked it up is because it was on the long list for the National Book Award. And I was like, I’m gonna read all the long list for nonfiction this year. And then I picked it up. And I was like, wow, I felt like an asshole. Because I was like, Don’t judge a book by its cover. I judged it by two words in the title. Let’s go like George Floyd. It’s gonna suck. No, it’s so good. And if you’re going into it, and you’re feeling like, I don’t want to read it, I with you, I was with you, then I see it. And I will say like, for me the worst part of not the worst part. But the part of the book that I liked the least, was actually like the trial and the stuff that I knew. Because the first two thirds of the book, it’s like, you don’t know any of this. You don’t know anything about we didn’t know anything about this man. Like he was a stranger to so like, to generally everybody besides the handful people who knew him, and like getting to know him and learn about him. And, you know, they trace his family back to slavery and like, not just his family, but the family that owned his family. Like they find out who the people were, who owned his like, great, great grandfather, like, it’s just incredibly researched and detailed. And so I just really loved it. So that’s my first one. Got Andrew Stern.

Andrew Limbong 21:47
Well, I guess this is yeah, I’ll do a little switcheroo here, not on the list? Because No, you said that they would, when you said that you’re apprehensive about reading it. A book that’s on my list is called elite capture. How the powerful took over identity politics and everything else. By olufemi. Oh, Taiwo. It’s like a it’s like a philosophy book. It’s a pretty, it’s a pretty slim read. But the central argument is about how, you know, elites can use the language of oppression, to further their own goals at the expense of people who are oppressed. And I feel like this happened. It’s happened a lot since 2020. Yeah.

Traci Thomas 22:30
I do.

Andrew Limbong 22:31
And, and, and it’s happened a lot through history. And I think, you know, one of the one of the arguments in the book is that like, it’s not like some grand conspiracy that this happens. It’s just sort of like, the natural flow of things, right. It’s how things have always happened. And and like, just being aware of it can help us just sort of like see the patterns a little bit more than once you sort of see the pattern to like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Hmm. Interesting, right. And like, and it’s everything from like, that’s innocuous. Like I read it earlier this year, and then real talk because it is such like a slim book. I like it got lost sort of both in the bookshelf of my mind and my literal but I thought about it what I thought about it recently because some dumb tweet, I got mad at Rashed. Oh, it was because oh, it was because there was some there was something like film drama and like seemingly the actor who plays Shang chi was like, like, say what you will about, you know, Marvel, but you know, diversity, and yada, yada, yada, right? And it’s like, okay, that’s true, but like, what are we doing? Right? What are we like? Come on guys. Like we’re gonna, like make Kevin Feige the sort of standard bearer of

Traci Thomas 23:51
like, Disney Company is like, yeah, the diversity and inclusion capital of the country. Yeah,

Andrew Limbong 23:56
it’s like no shots at him and no shots at Morrow, but I’m just like, I was like, I wouldn’t what are we doing guys?

Traci Thomas 24:04
Right in the book is it is it like people who are using you know the language and the rallying cries of oppressed groups in good faith way? Or is it people who are doing it in a bad way?

Andrew Limbong 24:16
Or is it both it’s I think it’s mostly bad faith way.

Traci Thomas 24:19
So it’s like the like transformation of woke kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. But

Andrew Limbong 24:23
it uses like historical examples from like, the past and then all the way through the present. And so then you can sort of see the patterns like oh, yeah, this is a this isn’t the same a new playbook it just like is just like showing you the playbook.

Traci Thomas 24:35
Oh my god, I That sounds so good. It’s been on my lesson. I’m gonna bump it up. Okay, my next pick was a stacks book club pick this year, and it is shine bright by Daniel Smith, which is the a the subtitle is a very personal history of black women and pop. And Danielle Smith is sort of her memoir meets the by like mini biographies of all sorts of black women and pop from Whitney Houston to Aretha Franklin to Janet Jackson, Gladys Knight, she does a thing on like the on Diana Ross and the Supremes, and she touches on all this and all these incredible women. And I just love this book because it like felt nice to read. Even though there’s a lot of like heavy stuff, and abuse and arratia and all this stuff. It’s just like, beautifully written. And it was joyful. And one of the members of the Stax pack made a full playlist of every song mentioned in the book, and I listened to it all the time. It’s like hours and hours. And it’s just like, for people who love pop culture, it’s, it’s the way to write about pop culture, you know, like, it’s the way to take these things seriously. And it’s a really, it’s an incredible playbook for people who are thinking about writing and talking about pop culture is like she mixes her own story with these other women and like get to it makes them serious. And not just like, Whitney Houston did crack, right. Like she like really seriously contemplates what that means and what that looks like, and the relationship with Bobby Brown and how that’s tied to Aretha Franklin. And it’s just, it’s an incredible book, and it makes me happy. Like, it’s one of the few books that I’ve read that I’m like, I love this book, and I want to just squeeze it and hug it and share it with people. So that’s one Yeah,

Andrew Limbong 26:16
that’s how I so I like reading I go on like a yearly camping trip. And on that book on on those, I usually bring, like, my, like collection of essays and criticisms like that I want to read so like, I think last year, I think last year, I bought the Hanifa jerky book on my favorites from last year that book I have like, like literally remember, like, me like getting sunburned on like I was like just like reading it. Like I should move but I’m in the middle of this chapter right now. And so I’ll just eat this. But yeah, I’m

Traci Thomas 26:44
gonna take this sunburn with me because I have to keep reading.

Andrew Limbong 26:47
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, but but this Daniel Smith book is definitely like, I saw it and I saw like people like, talking about it. It’s like, oh, yeah, that’s, that’s gonna be like this year’s camping book.

Traci Thomas 26:57
Oh, God. Oh, yeah. I hope you love it. Okay, actually, let’s take a quick break and then we’ll be right back. Okay, we’re back. Andrew, your third book?

Andrew Limbong 27:09
My third book is this book called luda by Grant Morrison. You don’t know that? Yeah. So Grant Morrison is they’re mostly known as a comic book writer. I grew up I used to read like their X Men books. They wrote a pretty popular Superman Ron, my I was obsessed with this graphic novel they wrote called week three. About these, like animals that got turned into like weapons of mass destruction by the American government, you know, you know, like, like, like fun stuff. Yeah.

Traci Thomas 27:40
Totally. Sounds actually like something I would Yeah. But this

Andrew Limbong 27:43
is their first novel, and it’s about this aging drag artist who gets sort of seduced goaded into sort of mentoring a younger ingenue. Right as Oh, another another, another younger drag artist, as a part of their pantomime company. It’s packed with like dick jokes, right? And there’s like, a, like, a dick joke at every page. If so, you know, if that’s not your thing, like beware, right? Yeah. Because, you know, It’s told through the perspective of like, Lucila bang, the main character, they’re like, doing their makeup and like telling you the story. Right. And so, it sounds a lot like that. I think it’s, it’s a little, there’s a lot of different ideas. And it’s, you know, admittedly, I think, like, kind of hard to follow sometimes. But I think it makes up for that with it with its humor. And I just think it’s like such a fun ride.

Traci Thomas 28:36
I love that. That sounds so fun. It’s a little bit like drag queen meets hacks the TV. Yeah. I love acts. So I’m interested. Yeah. Okay, my next pick is a weird one for me. Not weird, but just a not normal. I’ve never picked a poetry collection before. But this year, I am picking alive at the end of the world by side Jones. I loved this collection. So so so so much, I don’t even I’m one of those people that’s like, I don’t like poetry because I don’t get it. And we’ve talked about poetry on the show many times and how I don’t get it and I’m supposed to just like, not stress myself out. And if I get it great, and if not, not, with this collection, feel like I got it all. It’s about grief. It’s about pop culture. It’s about being black. It’s about, you know, the violence in America. It’s about the end of the world. I mean, the first poem is about the Pulse nightclub shooting. And Saeed recently shared it after the club Q shooting because it is like you were saying before, still relevant. You know, these things cycle back through. But Saeed has a way with the darkest of dark things, and humor and making those dark things feel somehow darker, but also like hilarious and very sad and awful. And also like, clever and I don’t know, I don’t know how he does it. It’s obviously why he’s a skilled poet and I am over here. fumbling through my words about this book. But I just, I thought this collection was out of this world starting with a cover just like the most cool cover. It’s like a silver, shiny mirror car and a person and a hot pink, like jumpsuit pushing it. Or maybe it’s an orange one I can’t remember now, but it’s a bright colored jumpsuit. It’s just like weird and cool. And it makes so much sense. And like the thing that’s really special about this book is that it feels so 2022 Like, it just feels like all the pieces of the Zeitgeist in 2022 are somehow in this book and obviously, say it was writing it prior to but the way that the collection is put together, I’m just like, this book is poster child. 2022 chaos. So yes, love, love, love.

Andrew Limbong 30:48
Do you think you’re open to other poetry now?

Traci Thomas 30:51
I mean, I so we’ve read poetry on the show. Every year, we do one poetry book. I’ve had poets on the podcast, and I am open to poetry. I just, it doesn’t always click for me like this one, just like hit me. Hard. And last year, I made I made a goal to read one poetry collection a month. So I did read I ended up reading about 14 or 15 poetry collections last year. So like, I definitely tried to stay open to poetry, but it feels like work. And this one did not like this one. There’s been a handful of others that have hit me similarly. But I think like, as far as I’m concerned, this is the best poetry collection I’ve ever read. Not just this year.

Andrew Limbong 31:30
I mean, I’ve got I’ve got a couple of poetry agnostics in my life that Yeah, yeah, by the

Traci Thomas 31:35
way, if they like pop culture, if they like dark humor, it’s definitely for them. If they’re looking for poetry to be like, existential about like, I don’t know, rivers and things. It’s not going to be for them. But like if they’re into like, if they’re millennial Lee kind of people I think they’ll look for sure. Nice. Okay, what do you have for me next?

Andrew Limbong 31:56
Alright, my next book is called diary of avoid by Miyagi, she’s, she’s a Japanese writer, I think this is her first book, she’s usually as a if I remember correctly, she has a like magazine editor there. This book is about a woman who, because she, she’s like, sort of like fed up doing the sort of unspoken labor on the office, you know, just like cleaning up taking notes at the meetings or whatever. So she, like, pretends that she’s pregnant. She just like, so like, so yeah, I can’t clean up like a cigarette butts. Right? Because like, I’m pregnant, and it bothers my stomach. And I’m like, Oh, okay. And like, all of a sudden, like, the word like her world, like changes. And so like, people are like, starting to, like, do things for her. And then it kind of gets fuzzy, I think as to whether I, I think there’s an argument to be made that maybe she starts believing it herself, you know what I mean? She starts like, like living the lie too hard. And I think it’s just like a, like a fascinatingly funny look at like, gender and like norms and all that stuff. And it’s one of those things that like, because it takes place in Japan, she gets like a ton a ton of like, paid leave time, right? So she, she then like, goes goes off into the, into the world of like Mommy and Me groups and all that stuff. And, and so, and faces that dislike sort of existential crisis about like motherhood and what motherhood means and how motherhood connects with like femininity and like being a person and all that stuff. Yeah, a lot of stuff to unpack there, but I love

Traci Thomas 33:24
Oh my God, that sounds so good. I feel like I don’t know if this is just my experience of Japanese novels that have been like translated into English, but I feel like there’s so many that deal with unlikable women. I feel like I don’t know if that those are just the ones that got picked to be translated or like the ones that have crossed by my desk, but I feel like what you’re saying is like totally tracks with this, like, kind of novel like I’m thinking like, convenience store woman is like a similar kind of like, labor and Japanese women and like being unlikable, and I love it. I mean, I’m like very into an unlikable woman.

Andrew Limbong 34:03
Yeah, the main character of this book was supposed to be like, kind of like shittily condescending to the other women and the mommy. It’s like, calm down dude. Trying to take care of their kids like everyone

Traci Thomas 34:13
else. And is this this is obviously kind of satirical or like dark humor. Yeah, it is. So excited. You came on for this because you’re putting so many books I’ve never even heard of on the list, which I’m thrilled. Thrilled. thrilled about. This is awesome. Okay, my next pick. This is the only novel on my list this year. And it is the swimmers by Julie Otsuka. Have you have you heard of this one?

Andrew Limbong 34:38
I’ve heard of it. Yeah. Okay. I can’t

Traci Thomas 34:41
say too much about it because it has a major twist in the book and I do not want to spoil it. But I’ll set up the premise as it was set up for me, which is basically a group of swimmers at like a community pool in an unnamed city in America. Swim and they discover a crack at The bottom of the pool, and then they start to freak out. So that’s the setup. The book does a lot more than that, I promise you, if you’re not into swimming, you’re going to be fine. This book is full of like real human dread, like, the kind like the kinds of anxieties and fears and, and stress that fill us all up. This book is also full of like some really interesting family dynamic. The voice of the book, Julia tsuka writes, the first part of the book is all like, we, we go to the pool, we do this sometimes we see our friend, the banker, and then we so it’s like, I don’t know, second person plural or something. I’m terrible. I’m not an English teacher, not a Faulkner scholar. But the writing style is so interesting. I kind of tell people it’s like, in a mainstream experimental novel, you know, like how it’s like not actually experimental. But as far as like a mainstream published book that like gets a lot of, you know, eyes on it. It’s sort of like weird and different. It’s like the indie movie that is at the Oscars. You know what I mean? Like, you made it to the Oscars. You’re not that fucking weird. But like, you’re definitely weirder than Black Panther. Yeah. And I like can’t tell everyone why I love it so much, because I don’t want to ruin anything. But it starts off weird and quirky. And it gets to a place where you’re like weeping and feel devastated. And it’s so slim. It’s like 200 pages, I think tops. And it’s just like, you know, sometimes when you read an author who’s written a lot of books, and you’re like, I feel safe with this person, because I can tell you’re a professional writer, and you understand how to tell a story. And like, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing. But I feel like I want to come with you because you’re a pro. That’s the vibe that I had throughout that whole book. I was like, I don’t know where this is going. I feel weird. I feel scared. I feel excited. But Julia tsuka is giving me sentences on top of sentences that are just mind blowing. And it’s just like, on a craft level, so good on a story level. So good. Love, love, love, love.

Andrew Limbong 37:08
And I have a 200 page book saying,

Traci Thomas 37:10
Oh my God, give me 200 pages if you can get it under 220 Yeah, I am your friend. Yeah. Because I tell books used to be like, I think of like a lot of like James Baldwin books are so slim and like Sula and like Giovanni’s Room. I think it’s like, yeah, God. Yes, super slim. And now it’s like, everybody has to be 300 pages. I’m like, no, no, it does not. You could just get an editor to get rid of

Andrew Limbong 37:35
my statement about America or whatever they

Traci Thomas 37:38
like, No, do it quicker. Let’s get a 30 minute sitcom situation. I do not need an hour drama. Not everything’s in our drama. Okay, we’re down to your this is your last one, right? Yes, it’s your number one. Yep.

Andrew Limbong 37:51
Yeah, my favorite book of the year is by Kate Beaton.

Traci Thomas 37:55
I just read this a duck socks. Yeah.

Andrew Limbong 37:58
Yeah, this is funny. This book. Yeah, this book. So it’s a it’s a graphic memoir. I think people know her from hark a vagrant which I wasn’t like a big fan of when when it was popping off in the webcomic

Traci Thomas 38:12
world. I’d never heard of it. I’d never heard of

Andrew Limbong 38:14
her. Yeah. But she this is like a it was gonna reverse like, this is like a pretty big book. But it’s a graphic novel. So it’s a little breezier. Like I did it in one afternoon. Yeah, same, same, same. Yeah. And it’s and it’s about her and the two years she spent in a in a oil mine in northern Canada. And I think it’s such a honest, and empathetic look at the sort of forces that force people into laboring under these certain conditions, you know what I mean? Because it sucks, right? This, it’s not a fun job. And she’s surrounded by dudes and a lot of like, really tough stuff happens to her. And it would be so easy for her to write something of a sort of like caricature to count right of her time there. Because I actually I did a profile of her once came out. And then I was talking to another guy who wrote a book, you know about about the Canadian oil miners. And you know, they’ll talk about how they were like magazine pieces, that would just focus on like, everyone getting like hammered and going to the strip club and stuff like that, and like, and doing drugs and and that stuff does exist, it does happen. But there’s like so much more to it than that, that people often glossed over and she gave, you know, these, these people in our life are real, like heart that I think makes you feel complicated about these, like, massive things that like, you know, mining for oil is probably bad for the world, right? Like, you don’t I mean, but, but then it’s like, it’s hard. And it just like talks about how like intractable it all is in our ecosystem.

Traci Thomas 39:51
Yeah. And what’s really interesting about the book is like you said, you know, she’s a woman, and I think there’s a part where she talks about being like one and 50 women in these camps, and like also just the she goes because she wants to pay off her student loans. She’s like, always been an artist like wants to be a creative. I think she was like an art history major or something. But she’s like, that doesn’t pay, I gotta go, like, make money. And it’s this really like capitalistic plays like everyone’s there to make money and like, send money home. And that’s it. Like, that’s why they’re there. They’re all miserable. They all hate it. They’re all like, fucking up. And ultimately, it’s like, just to make money and ruin the environment. And it just brings up like questions like you’re saying about that kind of stuff of like, what is what is this? What’s happening here?

Andrew Limbong 40:39
Yeah. And it’s like it follows. I think there were like, two years, because I remember there was that stretch. Yeah, we’re like,

Traci Thomas 40:46
that’s, it’s from 2005 to 2008. And it’s her two years, but there’s one year where she like leaves and goes to a museum to work or

Andrew Limbong 40:54
Yeah, and then finds out that like, oh, capitalism is about here. Yeah, it’s just like, oh, this also sucks, but in a different way. Exactly. Yeah. No, but like I was, there was like a stretch where I, you know, I had a friend or two who wanted to go to like North Dakota, right? To go work for oil. Like, that was a big thing. Like, it was just, we there was a similar pattern in the States, where, like, you know, dudes, just out of college, like would go it would just go to North Dakota for you know, mining for oil there. And it’s like, oh, yeah, we we have the same. We’re just I didn’t

Traci Thomas 41:25
know that. Yeah, I’m not up on the oil camp community. In America, obviously. Yikes. I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a it’s a kind of icky icky book. Yeah. Not like, not like, grotesque or anything, but just kind of leaves you feeling. It’s unsettling.

Andrew Limbong 41:47
That is? Yeah, the ending is like, yeah, obviously say what the ending was, but yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Traci Thomas 41:53
Yeah. Okay. Interesting. All right. Here’s my last pick. I hope this is the book you wrote down. My $3. My number one best book of the year. For I read it in January. It was the book to hold on to is south to America by Imani Perry.

Andrew Limbong 42:09
Yep. Let the listeners show. I had this written down in front of me that this was the nonfiction here of the year. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 42:15
this is okay, but did not make the New York Times most notable 100 books or top 10? No, Isn’t that insane?

Andrew Limbong 42:24
I don’t know why, in fact, checking you, right?

Traci Thomas 42:27
I have read the list nine times because I was so stressed out about it. It made me so deeply upset. There were two other books that didn’t make it that were a National Book Award finalist. The man who can move clouds and his name is George Floyd and I cannot get over it. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to forgive the New York Times for that those three books weren’t on the top 100 Excuse me. Anyways, my Book of the Year is south to America by Imani Perry. I I love this book. I’ve I have talked ad nauseam about this book since January. I have been recommending it. i What I love about this book is there’s so many things to love. But what I love most about this book is that Imani Perry is a national treasure. And her writing is so beautiful. And she takes us with her on this weird journey through the American South. But also, it’s a journey that only she could take us on. Like this book is so rooted in Imani Perry’s brilliant mind. And I love that for us. Like I love that. You can’t just like if someone else was like I’m writing a book about the American South and how it is, you know impacts the rest of the nation. I feel like it would be a really different book but Imani Perry was like no, let’s talk about like honeybuns and let’s talk about the different ways that you can say someone is like, like, you know, like the different uses of language. And let’s talk about you know, is Washington DC the south are not like let’s have a whole chapter on that and let’s go back and like find my ancestors and and let’s talk about what it feels like to be in Alabama and how that feels like Mississippi and like why that feels like home and why when she meets someone from Mississippi they feel like home to her and like all these little tiny tiny points that she ties together just so beautifully and like it’s like this web of she just like pull it like it’s like when people do like a loom you know, they’re like weaving on a loom and it’s like you have like 900 colors and you’re making a tapestry and it looks like nothing up close and then you pull back and you’re like holy shit, but it’s just like a few threads here and a few threads there and you’re pulling it all in and like only a real artist could make something so intricate and beautiful, you know, and someone else could like make a bathmat out of like a few colors but like she’s like giving you aren’t and I don’t know, it’s just I can’t even explain it but I will say this about the book. The other thing I loved about this book is I found it challenging to read. Alright, and I feel like sometimes I Like a lot of people want to read something that just feels like goes down really easy. And this book is like, it’s not cheap. It’s not hard, like the topics are difficult because we’re talking about the American South and race and all of these things in class. But it’s like her writing is so complicated, that you really have to, like, give it attention, which I loved, like I love not being able to phone it in with this book. And I will say, the first chapter, I could not figure out what the fuck I was reading. And then by the second or third chapter, I was like, Oh, I get it, which is something that happened to me similarly, with the Hanif collection last year, like after the first essay, I was like, What is this book? And then as I got further, and I was like, oh, like teaches you how to read it. Exactly. And this book does the same thing. So for people who are picking it up, don’t you got to you got to get through it. Keep going, keep reading, it’ll reveal itself to you. But this book to me was easily hands down. The best thing that I read this year, and probably one of the best books of the last five or 10 years for me.

Andrew Limbong 45:56
Did you listen to her speech at the Force?

Traci Thomas 46:00
I was like, five times I

Andrew Limbong 46:01
was. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 46:05
she’s so fantastic. I mean, I had the pleasure of meeting her this year. And I said, I told her this to her face. I was like you and actually coincidentally, Hanif are two of the living writers right now that I’m like, Oh, I’m so glad to be alive and reading this work as it’s coming to us in real time in the way that I think that people who like knew Toni Morrison felt that way right? Like oh, we’re among someone someone really special like she to me, she is our like, great, one of our great living writers. And to see this book, you know, be be published first of all, because it is sort of like a proposal for this I feel like could could get a lot of like, I don’t get it, but to see it be published and Dunn’s executed so well and then to actually receive the praise for the most part, like I It makes me so happy for Imani Perry because she’s, she’s just she’s deserving of the praise. You know,

Andrew Limbong 47:04
it’s so funny that you you pair her with and if because I agree with you and I understand what you’re like, these would be like the like, if like everyone like writers would just go on like William F Buckley show or whatever like that, you know what I mean? And like be like cultural figures like these are the these are those those people of 2020. But they come from like such different such backgrounds. Like yeah, like she’s like coming from like academia and like history and stuff like that. And Hanif. I, I know, because I’ve read his like, essays about pop punk bands.

Traci Thomas 47:35
Yeah, they do come from really different worlds, and they’re different generations. I mean, Imani, I think, just turned 50. And Hanif is, like 35, or something, you know, like they’re definitely different generations. And, but they, they both are considering the world around them. And in unique ways. You know, like, I would love to do a project where you give, like some of the best writers the same prompt, and then like to see how Hanif and Imani would write about XYZ, you know, like I think that would be so cool because their brains are so different and so exciting and like and and you know, we did breathe by Imani Perry on the sax as a book club PyCon 2020. And that’s her letter to her son’s it’s like a you know, it’s like kind of like a memoir but in letter form. And and that book is she does a similar thing where she pulls all these different ideas together and like the fact that she can do it in an academic way she can do it in a personal way she can do it in sort of this blend way with South to America. It’s just too it’s too much talent for my brain to handle. Yeah. So yeah, that’s our top 10 We did it we

Andrew Limbong 48:49
just everybody you normally like lean heavily more on nonfiction, right?

Traci Thomas 48:53
I do normally lean nonfiction. But in the past, I feel like I’ve always had at least one or two fictions on the list this year I think is only I’ve only had just I think the last few years I’ve had two I think this is only or I’ve had just the one. But you know staying true to myself having a lot of nonfiction and the poetry that I picked is very nonfiction it doesn’t feel fiction yet. Yeah. But yeah, that’s why I have to bring someone else in to help me because otherwise it would be all nonfiction and

Andrew Limbong 49:21
I felt bad. I was like, Oh man, I only have like one nonfiction.

Traci Thomas 49:24
Oh, it’s great. I can handle some other nonfiction books. No, you had to because you had a lead capture and you had Kate Beaton. Oh, right, I

Andrew Limbong 49:32
guess. Yeah, that counts as mount. Yeah. And we got graphic

Traci Thomas 49:34
on here. I feel like we got a really good like diverse list. We have something in translation. We have poetry. We have graphic we have novels we have sort of SAE we also have novels are kind of very graphic. We have graphic. Yeah, we have grotesque and graphic. I feel like we did good. We have a few more minutes. Do you have any books that you’re really excited about for two 2023

Andrew Limbong 50:01
The one book I’m very looking forward to reading. That’s all that’s on my shelf right now is called the ringmaster by Abe Reisman. It’s a it’s a biography of Vince McMahon. Oh runs like the WWE. And she he she comes from I think she comes from New York Magazine wrote, like one of the great biographies of Stan Lee. She also did a profile of like Steve Ditko, which is who was one of the artists who co created spider man, who’s this sort of like libertarian mysterious shadow figure. And so I trust I trust her what she’s doing with it with ringmaster, you know, this isn’t just any Joe Schmo writing between men back free. And like, as I’m 33, and rest, and I was never a big wrestling fan. But I think it’s undeniable, considering our recent political history. How like, the energy and language of professional wrestling is imbued in America, you know, and how we talk about pretty much everything. And so and I think there’s just like, fascinating things that you can break, you can break the WWE down about like, gender and race, you know what I mean? Like,

Traci Thomas 51:10

Andrew Limbong 51:11
There’s just like, I have this distinct memory, in my mind of, there used to be this thing that like, kids would do in when I was in elementary school that came from wrestling with just like, they like, I don’t know how to describe it. They like put their their hands on their like, groin and go like, suck it.

Traci Thomas 51:28
Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. Like, cropped like you’d cross.

Andrew Limbong 51:31
Yeah, yeah. I think everyone can imagine what I’m what the movement is like. It’s like, why are we all doing that?

Traci Thomas 51:38
Why were all the kids I was scared, we’re gonna be wrestling.

Andrew Limbong 51:41
I’m pretty sure. Yeah. I like degeneration, x or whatever. And, you know, there’s just like, you know, arguably one of our biggest movie stars, right, Dwayne Johnson comes from restaurant and all that. And I think it’s such an interesting world to break down that I’m excited to chew into.

Traci Thomas 51:59
Oh, my gosh, right now that’s on my list of most anticipated. I haven’t turned I write a column every year about my most anticipated books, and I’m adding that to mine because I don’t know anything about wrestling. But if it’s a person who can write smartly about a topic I know nothing about that. I’m all in. I have a handful of books that I’m really excited about. There. I should start with. There’s a bunch of books coming from people who have been like past guests and favorites on the podcast. Brandon Taylor has a new book, Samantha Irby has a new book, Clint Smith has a new collection of poetry. Nicole Chung has a new book, a book that I’m really excited about from a past guest is Chang gang, All Stars by Nona, Kwame Adjei branya, who wrote Friday black. And this is about like a group of women, I think, who I hate to read about books before they come out. So I’m like, I don’t really know what it’s about. But I know it’s about a group of women in prison, who are like fighting each other like, like, for sport. So I’m excited about that, because Nona writes like such dark, twisted fun stuff. So that’s one that I’m really excited about. And then there is a book that, funnily enough, a member of the statspack rosmond told me about called the writers come out at night by Ali Winston and Darwin bond Graham, and it’s an examination into the Oakland Police Department and all their scandals, and I’m from Oakland. So this is one of my personal like, things. I’m I’m obsessed like the one that cares about? Yes, it’s about all of that. There’s so many other. There’s a lot that you said that’s part of it. Yeah. So it’s like the nonfiction version of Nightcrawler. And some, but apparently ally Winston and Darwin bond, Graham had been writing about the Oakland Police Department for Bay Area publications for years. And so it’s their kind of like, they put all of this together to like, do a whole thing. And the cover is like this fantastic shot of the Bay Area and neither Oakland that night and I’m just like, I cannot wait it comes out in January. And I haven’t fully started reading 2023 books As of recording. But as of the time people hear this, I’ll probably have already read the book. So I’ll have thoughts but that’s one that’s really high on my list. And then also Matthew Desmond who wrote evicted has a new book coming out called poverty by America Yeah, so I’m curious about that. I liked evicted I didn’t love evicted a lot of people thought it was like the greatest thing ever. It won the Pulitzer. But I’m really curious about this one, because I think he’s a fantastic writer. So those are just like a handful of books that are coming that I’m excited about. But again, I just I this year, for whatever reason, I feel like I’m not as on the pulse I’m not haven’t quite gotten on the pulse of 2023 yet. I feel like last year I knew like going into 2023 when we did this last year, I was like or 2022 I was like, I have to read south to America. I think it’s good. Like I like you know, like I knew I was on my cot like you know sometimes you just know what books are coming and you’re like so excited and this year. It’s a smaller batch for me but a lot of people who have been on the show are coming out With second, third fourth books that I’m just like cannot wait. So yeah, any predictions for what we can expect in 2023? Any trends you think we might see

Andrew Limbong 55:10
in complete honesty. So like, my partner is about to have a kid. So like my book reading has been like how to build gradually birthing partner, you know what I mean? But to bring it back to what we were told what I kind of, you know what I’m kind of hoping to say, here’s what I’m hoping to see people sort of like, three years late on the book, talk game, sort of, like, begrudgingly doing it. And you can tell

Traci Thomas 55:37
Don’t be me, that’s gonna be

Andrew Limbong 55:40
like Cormac McCarthy be like, oh, yeah, well.

Traci Thomas 55:46
It’s so weird. I love that. Wait, when is your offspring due?

Andrew Limbong 55:51
February? Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. So I really might take a big hit, but we’ll see.

Traci Thomas 55:57
You’ll be surprised. I might not. I had twins in 2019. And I still powered through. So you know, and I did read a bunch of those parenting books, but you can skip a lot of them. We’ll talk offline. I’ll give you my few Rex. Yeah. Okay. Well, this was so fun. Andrew Limbong, the host of NPR is book of the day, you can catch that show every day, except for Saturday and Sunday weekdays. And if you’ve never listened, you’ll you all should go through the back catalogue because there are so many freakin episodes with people that we’ve had on the show Friends of the podcast like Brandon Kyle Goodman is on Kamala Shamsie. And also, it’s like such a great way to get you know, 9, 10 minutes snippet about a book that maybe you’re curious about. You’re not sure if you want to invest time in it, you’ll get these little spoiler free snippet interviews from all of your favorite voices at NPR like Alyssa Chang does them who I love. So definitely, definitely, definitely check out the show. Andrew, thank you so much for being here.

Andrew Limbong 57:00
Thank you so much for having me. This is loads of fun.

Traci Thomas 57:01
Yeah. And everyone else we will see you in The Stacks.

Alright, y’all, that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you again to Andrew Lindbergh for joining us. I’d also like to say a huge thank you to Mr. Borden for helping to make this episode possible. The sex book club pick for December is true biz by Sarah Novic. We will be discussing the book on Wednesday, December 28. With our guest Greta Johnson. If you love the show on inside access to it head to patreon.com/thestacks to join The Stacks pack. Make sure you’re subscribed with the stature of your listen to your podcasts and if you’re listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify be sure to leave us a rating and a review. For more from The Stacks follow us on social media at The Stacks pod on Instagram and at the stock spot underscore on Twitter and check out our website The Stacks podcast.com This episode of the stocks was edited by Kristian Duenas with production assistants from Lauren Tyree. The Stacks is created and produced by me Traci Thomas.

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